HMRC's obsession with contractors

[Torran]

Blimey Jog, have you only just realised this?

They (HMRC, the Labour Government, and chippy lefties in general) HATE OUR F**KING GUTS!

Why? Well, the reasons are numerous and well documented, so I will refrain from giving a comprehensive list here.

Suffice to say that IR35 (yes, remember?) set the tone for our relationship with the party in power. The Paymaster General, no less, compared us to 'glorified typists' and war was promptly declared.

In summary, the principal reasons why they hate and fixate upon us are: -

1) We are independent and not under the control of the government, or friends of the government (i.e. big corporate employers).

2) We are entrepreneurial. This is plainly anathema to these clods who have never so much as ran a whelk stall. They have no concept of risk and reward, standing on ones own feet etc.

3) We are natural anti-Labourites. We hate everything they stand for. They prop up the dependency culture whereas we try to escape from it.

Labour have always been suspicious of the self-employed, the small business owners, and those who wish to better themselves, and they seek to penalise them at every opportunity.

It's as if being self-employed were some sort of fiddle, or a tax dodge. As we know, they are the fiddlers and dodgers, not us.

*salutes the Bogeyman*

[HairyArsedBloke]

Talk about fighting an asymmetric war! The government enacts oppressive policies based on their deluded prejudices and those that would defend against them have to search for primary and unambiguous source material. Unfortunately, no matter how well researched and reasoned the defence may be those that would judge the case are under control of the government and even if they did support the complainant, the government would change the rules or form of the oppression.

I am so glad I am out of the game. It is so clear to me why some groups turn to violence; it is the only way to communicate with the government.

[oracleslave]

It is so clear to me why some groups turn to violence; it is the only way to communicate with the government.

Oh Dear TM

[TheFaQQer]

Talk about fighting an asymmetric war! The government enacts oppressive policies based on their deluded prejudices and those that would defend against them have to search for primary and unambiguous source material. Unfortunately, no matter how well researched and reasoned the defence may be those that would judge the case are under control of the government and even if they did support the complainant, the government would change the rules or form of the oppression.

I am so glad I am out of the game. It is so clear to me why some groups turn to violence; it is the only way to communicate with the government.

Yeah - just ask BrilloPad about how successful f4j have been taking on the government through protesting.

[SandyDown]

Sorry didn’t read the previous posts in detail, as am on the verge of signing a new contract, I have asked my accountant (who actually works for the local tax office part time) He confirmed that HMRC is taking an increased active and continuous interest in investigating the IT contractor’s status (within or outside the IR35). OK this is not new to most of you.

The main areas in the contract in question are:
1-Whether the contract work is at the client's premises (i.e. naming a specific premises to execute service)
2-Definition of professional day and naming fixed hours
3- Allowance for substitution of personnel (with an outline to show how it could be feasible were the need to arise and that no monies due during the hand-over).
4- Whether the Agency/Client contract also reflects the conditions above.


Can I ask how are you going about ensuring the above conditions ? Obviously I have insisted that there would be no definition of fixed hours in my contracts, and having a substitution clauses… but what about ensuring the agency/client contract stipulates such condition (in most cases the agency/client contract would have been agreed well before a contract joins) I personally propose to officially write to the agency and have a written confirmation from them that such conditions are reflected in the client/agency contract, but not sure if this is suffice, and what should I do if they confirm that the answer is actually NO?


Ok – to the guys who are saying they are happy they are out of the game – I don’t understand, if you are a permie and have a decent wages, then the employer would charge you full taxes anyway, so our worst scenario would be to equate a contractor to an employee taxes, only we have the choice to get out of the situation!! Am I missing anything?

[oracleslave]

Am I missing anything?

Just a few marbles.

HTH.

[Pinto]

I don’t understand, if you are a permie and have a decent wages, then the employer would charge you full taxes anyway, so our worst scenario would be to equate a contractor to an employee taxes, only we have the choice to get out of the situation!! Am I missing anything?

Employer's NI. Always the thing that annoys me the most about IR35. If you're a disguised employee of Clientco, and all your income is taxed as such, you shouldn't need to also pay Employer's NI.

[Marina]

The Paymaster General, no less, compared us to 'glorified typists' and war was promptly declared.

That must explain why so many Government IT projects end in disastrous failure - When something needs doing they hire a bunch of typists (monkeys on typewriters most likely).

[em:two]

The main areas in the contract in question are:
1-Whether the contract work is at the client's premises (i.e. naming a specific premises to execute service)
2-Definition of professional day and naming fixed hours
3- Allowance for substitution of personnel (with an outline to show how it could be feasible were the need to arise and that no monies due during the hand-over).
4- Whether the Agency/Client contract also reflects the conditions above.

Just had a right game with a certain SThree agency about this. Basically told them all the points listed above needed amending to reflect me being outside IR35. I'm delievering system go live support on an ad hoc basis, at about 10 different client sites as and when required. No set hours are required by the client. I also have people I could send in my place should the need arise.

The agency flat refused to amend to making the contract IR35 friendly which resulted in (after 3 weeks of negotiating / hollering down the phone) me not taking the contract.

Another good one there SThree.

[beaker]

Employer's NI. Always the thing that annoys me the most about IR35. If you're a disguised employee of Clientco, and all your income is taxed as such, you shouldn't need to also pay Employer's NI.

I agree. Working through a limited within IR35 puts you at a disadvantage compared with a permie being paid the same.

Surely it's only "fair" that whoever is deemed to be your employer (client or agent) pays this tax. Of course they will just lower your rate to accomodate the additional cost, but it's the principle innit!

Either that or let us work as self-employed...