Abuse of the Visa system

[AtW]

Fair enough AtW, I've just checked and I assumed that HSMP was the same as work permits (wrong again DA). This of course begs the question as to what exactly is their relationship with meticular?

HSMP allows worker to walk away from job without fear of being deported (unlike work permit), this is good because it makes these immigrants more independent and less exploitable - the biggest threat to any legit immigrant is deportation or loss of visa, so those on workpermit would indeed be in much worse situation than anyone on HSMP.

[/QUOTE]meticular are very much involved in the process of these guys obtaining visas.[/QUOTE]

Maybe. With HSMP there is no need for any paperwork by employer - the person with it can start job tomorrow if necessary, which is obviously a big plus and no risk to employer in having to get workpermit etc. So it is possible some recruitment agents on the other side started looking for people who can quality for HSMP to get them over hear and manage them. I don't see a problem here since people on HSMP can't be abused in a way people on work permit in the same swetshops can be.

Note also one more thing - people on HSMP actually make committment to stay in this country permanently, unlike work permit holders who can go back home - this means that people on HSMP who are in this country will be subject to the same taxes as you, high costs of everything, so in a way it levels the field - they would not want or even can to charge low prices - one of the conditions of HSMP is that upon renewal Home Office checks income and if it is too small the visa might be revoked!

So, personally I think HSMP is much better program than work permit not just for the holders, but for local population - HSMP makes it much harder to undercut. Well, at least insofar as reasonable salary is concerned (35-40k).

[AtW]

To me this HSMP thing is being latched onto by Indian companies (with offices in the uSA & London) in order to bring in cheap workers.

They are striking back at the Empire dodgy

[ladymuck]

get back on your running machine ladymuck... it does look a bit flimsy, are you sure it wont collapse when you start jumping around on it?

I'll be fine, it'll even take your weight

[DodgyAgent]

They are striking back at the Empire dodgy

If you cant beat em ...

It is this that worries me:

Our existing relationship with our employees ensures that they do not leave the project in a hurry.

Just what is "Our existing relationship"?

as you say AtW they are free to behave like every other low life scumbag IT person and swap jobs at the slightest hint of an extra buck on their paypacket.

Thank christ there are still a few of us around with some integrity

[AtW]

Our existing relationship with our employees ensures that they do not leave the project in a hurry.

No idea to be honest, if it was workpermit related stuff then I'd agree with you fully, but HSMP point makes it unlikely, though again they could just lie about HSMP, but in theory employers now have to be strict and check right to work as otherwise they will be liable.

I don't think HSMP people will switch jobs easily - certainly not in the first couple of years when they have to maximise revenues in order to get visa extension that depends on their success measured in monetary terms.

But, people on HSMP certainly won't be like slaves on work permits - they can walk out if necessary without fear, so I doubt swetshops can operate with HSMP folk. Well, maybe only if they take their families hostages back in India?

[DodgyAgent]

. Well, maybe only if they take their families hostages back in India?

You think too kindly of people AtW.
My take is this:

a number of Indians are selected by meticulouslydodgy company. They are then coerced into applying for an HSMP which meticulously dodgy help them out with. In so doing meticulously dodgy get them to sign a contract saying that they will work through them and only through them for say 3 years at their rates of pay. "M..D.." find them work in return and probably take their passports off them.

Call me a cynic... but that is what I would do

[AtW]

It is possible that these people do just that - if they find submissive people (probably easy in a poor country with 1 bln citizens) who are afraid to fight for their rights then they might succeed.

HSMP checks are however pretty strict and in any case these people will have to show substantial earnings in order to get renewed.

[2uk]

The email is not OK as I have just pointed out. And this whole thing is not about foreigners being a better choice (you mean cheaper?), it is about there supposedly being a skills shortage in IT in the UK (which there isnt).
To me this HSMP thing is being latched onto by Indian companies (with offices in the uSA & London) in order to bring in cheap workers.

If meticul** whatever, were a bona fide company they would be placing these people in permanent jobs in the UK and charging a fee or offering them to agencies for a fee where they are free to negotiate their terms just as UK contractors do.

The email is simply offering HSMP people.This is points based ( abolished later this year ) and if the talent has HSMP , then they are already here legally. This is the most legal way out there.

I don't mean cheaper. I am certainly not. I mean more motivated/ambitious. This is a great thing.

The thing with the large Indian company exploits "intra-company-transfer" schemes and not the HSMP.


Not sure I understand the bona fide sentence , but then I can't be bothered ot read all posts in full

[DodgyAgent]

The email is simply offering HSMP people.This is points based ( abolished later this year ) and if the talent has HSMP , then they are already here legally. This is the most legal way out there.

I don't mean cheaper. I am certainly not. I mean more motivated/ambitious. This is a great thing.

The thing with the large Indian company exploits "intra-company-transfer" schemes and not the HSMP.


Not sure I understand the bona fide sentence , but then I can't be bothered ot read all posts in full

I take it that you are an HSMP applicant? Do you know how many of these are given out each year? Can anyone who meets the criteria automatically expect to obtain such a visa? or do they have a set number that they give out?

bona fide means in good faith, proper etc

[Francko]

The email is simply offering HSMP people.This is points based ( abolished later this year ) and if the talent has HSMP , then they are already here legally. This is the most legal way out there.

I don't mean cheaper. I am certainly not. I mean more motivated/ambitious. This is a great thing.

The thing with the large Indian company exploits "intra-company-transfer" schemes and not the HSMP.


Not sure I understand the bona fide sentence , but then I can't be bothered ot read all posts in full

We were thinking of outsourcing you with a young indian playboy with a Tata, much cheaper than a brit with an A3.