When will they ban guns?

[Churchill]

Depends - if the guy was still inside house then it's fair play, he might have been just running away to be around corner and then pull out his own gun.

Frankly anyone breaking into someone's house like this in the middle of the night should expect to be shot to death. In some states in good old US of A they have good laws about "your house is a castle", so there won't even be criminal case if you shoot attacker who invaded your house like this.

You do talk bollocks!

[AtW]

You do talk bollocks!

Look, if you can buy a gun in France or Germany, why is it you can't do in this country? Frankly, France and Germany do a fair few other things much better than the UK, handguns ownership being just one of them.

[expat]

I think you are allowed to defend yourself in your own home, but have to be proportional.

"detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an upraised knife"
-- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Churchill]

Look, if you can buy a gun in France or Germany, why is it you can't do in this country? Frankly, France and Germany do a fair few other things much better than the UK, handguns ownership being just one of them.

See ya!

[Ardesco]

He shot him twice, in the back! Shooting someone in the back is revenge, not defence.

The little scrote shouldn't have been there in the first place!!

To be honest it is quite reasonable to assume he couldn't see if the guy was facing him or running away if it was pitch black, but we don't really know the circumstances, only 3 people do and one of them is dead....


Not going to bother getting into a debate about it, but this is not the only case where somebody has attacked a burgler they have found in their house (as to it being self defence or not I leave that up to you) and then have had proceeding laid against them for assault, or have been sued for injuries.

If all burglers knew they could be shot if found in somebody's house with no charges brought against the owner they may think twice....

[PAH]

You've got to make sure...

Haven't you watched films where they get up again?

Yeah, he could have claimed to have just been watching Halloween.

Though that may have been more credible if he'd poked him in the eye with a coathanger then set him on fire, then run him over with a truck, then dismembered him. Not forgetting the Shatner mask, which would have been the clincher.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I think the handgun ban has been counter productive, but I don't accept the self defence argument either. Presumably crims would know to target people who were unlikely to hold guns (elderly?, poor?) and the crims would then be armed 99% of the time.

Also, the US is a very poor comparison. That statistic about "hot" burglaries is often quoted by the NRA - but it doesn't really prove anything - most Americans I meet are always going on about the long hours they work with no holidays so maybe that's why they aren't in when Mr burglar calls.

What the NRA and others fail to mention is the huge number of people who are killed by friends and family members with guns when arguments escalate and firearms are freely available - and even the number of accidental deaths and injuries. I think this would be a high price to pay for the illusion that we could "defend ourselves".

[AtW]

the crims would then be armed 99% of the time.

Why is that? It's not like criminals should be getting licensed gun, plus, the issue here is that - scumbags value their lives, so they will have to switch to something else from robbing ordinary people as they would risk getting a bullet.

The state can't guarantee good protection to everyone - police will arrive in time for your body to be zipped up, and they are good at catching the murderer, but what's good it is to you if you dead?

Not everyone should be armed - firearms is a dangerous thing and there should be very strict controls, much stricter than in the USA.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Why is that? It's not like criminals should be getting licensed gun, plus, the issue here is that - scumbags value their lives, so they will have to switch to something else from robbing ordinary people as they would risk getting a bullet..

Illegal guns are cheap here. Why would that change just because ordinary people could have expensive ones?

As for scumbags valuing their life - we could spend a whole day on that alone, but logic suggests they will take a cheap gun and fire first - remember they are usually more reckless too - they won't be worrying about which members of your family might get caught in the crossfire - and what about people who are too weak, old, infirm or poor to afford a "self defence" gun? won't they just become more obvious targets?

[AtW]

Illegal guns are cheap here. Why would that change just because ordinary people could have expensive ones?

Yes, illegal gun ownership is growing, this is among criminals not law abiding citizens who are disarmed.

People who are "too weak and too old" are already targeted, perhaps the police will have more time protecting them from those scumbags who I hope will be meeting their end during yet another crime instead of being left out on parole because jails are full.