When will they ban guns?

[PAH]

Police can't arrive in time everywhere to save lifes - that's why it is essential that responsible people have access to means of effective self-defence.

And you trust our goverment to decide who is a responsible person?

I'd rather the vast majority not have access to guns then I know if I give someone the finger I'm not as likely to get shot.

You seem to be living under whatever warped logic causes arms races. Allowing guns in society is just a few steps from people demanding tanks and justice by death, as they'll have the power to kill with very little effort.

At least with knives they've got to have the balls (or mental issues) to stick it in someone. Guns allow for a much more remote kind of killing.

[AtW]

And you trust our goverment to decide who is a responsible person?

It is fairly easy to have an objective cut off by age, house ownership, family, lack of criminal record, psycological assessment including lie detector (like for what purpose you want gun) etc.

Guns ownership is present in France and Germany, they are doing fine. It was also present in this country until that crazy man shot kids in school - tragic case, but before that gun crime was actually low, heck, after banning guns actual gun crime is raising, so I think arguements that sudden gun ownership will increase gun crime are baseless.

[PAH]

I think you'll find gun crime is rising because the number of immigrants is rising, who don't necessarilly live by our (British) code of conduct.

Is it really a coincidence that much of the drug related crime is organised by foreigners. In my town the pakistanis who used to run the drugs are now being taken over by the poles.

I'm afraid a stiff upper lip and a cup of tea won't cut it these days. Other cultures have a very different outlook and set of morals to what we may have been used to in this country, but change is progress ain't it.

It's just like your red and grey squirrels, the greys are taking over for a reason.

[AtW]

I think you'll find gun crime is rising because the number of immigrants is rising, who don't necessarilly live by our (British) code of conduct.

I doubt immigrants are responsible for complete raise in gun crime (doubling) since 1997 - Britain has got her own large share of native yobs and criminals. Afterall you had to dedicate whole continent of Australia for them

[Gonzo]

I doubt immigrants are responsible for complete raise in gun crime (doubling) since 1997

Well, there's you advocating being able to shoot people in self defence for a start

[AtW]

Well, there's you advocating being able to shoot people in self defence for a start

Nothing wrong in shooting attackers in self-defence - what's wrong is that the attackers in this country can shoot you, and you can't really defend yourself: a handgun gives a better chance of survival and introduces element of uncertainity for the criminal - they would not be sure if they get shot while trying to rob or rape someone, right now they know it won't happen.

[NickFitz]

I don't remember uninsured drivers being something that was ever talked about when I were a lad.

Yes, but it cost so much to feed the horse

[Churchill]

AtW, you can not register a firearm in the UK for the purposes of self defence.

In fact, imho if anyone were to try and obtain a FAC for such a purpose I'd prevent them from doing so on the grounds that they're mentally unstable anyway.

[expat]

Nothing wrong in shooting attackers in self-defence - what's wrong is that the attackers in this country can shoot you, and you can't really defend yourself: a handgun gives a better chance of survival and introduces element of uncertainity for the criminal - they would not be sure if they get shot while trying to rob or rape someone, right now they know it won't happen.

Quite so. It is doubtful whether "self defence" really does form part of English Law any more.

Example:
Proportion of burglaries in England & Wales where occupier is present at time of burglary: 53%.
Corresponding proportion in USA: 13%.
Why is this, do you think?

Violent criminals in the UK can rest easy in the knowledge that their victims will have neither the means nor the right to defend themselves.

This IMHO is because of the extent of the shift from the individual to society in this country. You are not supposed to defend yourself, you are supposed to call on the authorities to do it for you. Their standards of success in this endeavour may be different from yours.

[Churchill]

Now come on, we can't even drink responsibly, how do you expect us to handle firearms?