Another what would you do ?

[Gonzo]

Jeez, is this still going.

OK, some people are in the total prohibition camp, some are in the a little bit of use does not really do a lot of damage camp. There is probably a spend all their time out of their tree camp - but those ones can't switch on their computer.

Those in the total prohibition camp should learn at least one thing from the little bit of use does not really do any harm camp.

If you constantly tell your children that all drugs will instantly destroy your life, the moment that they do try them and are OK, or they see their friends try them and be OK, they will no longer believe anything you say on the matter.

The better lesson to give them is that although they might be fun, taking them is fraught with risks and so if they do, they need to make sure that they are careful. If you don't know how to tell them to be careful then make sure they know how important it is that they find out.

[Denny]

Jeez, is this still going.

If you constantly tell your children that all drugs will instantly destroy your life, the moment that they do try them and are OK, or they see their friends try them and be OK, they will no longer believe anything you say on the matter.

The better lesson to give them is that although they might be fun, taking them is fraught with risks and so if they do, they need to make sure that they are careful. If you don't know how to tell them to be careful then make sure they know how important it is that they find out.

You seem to be forgetting that drugs like Coke and weed are illegal. You are only focusing on the medical and health risks. Surely, this is the main point that should dissuade parents or guardians from encouraging drug use, recreational or not. Otherwise, if you take that legality out of the equation you may as well apply it to anything illegal: you could say to your son 'ok, little johnny go and get some toys from the shop without paying, but remember that there are risks attached to doing that. Just be careful you aren't caught and don't make a habit of it or you could well end up a habitual thief and go to jail. This is the 'permissive poster equivalent' logic on this thread - and it isn't at all logical.'

Now can you see the absurdity in your position when you exclude the illegality factor? No parent should be encouraging illegal behaviour, occasional or otherwise. Otherwise, they too are party to that crime.

Only, there is one important difference. Taking Coke could lead to a heart attack or addiction, getting caught with shoplifting is not likely to. The first is illegal for far more important reasons that the second, I suggest.

Of course, we argue whether something should be illegal but that is not what this debate was ever about.

[Gonzo]

Now can you see the absurdity in your position when you exclude the illegality factor? No parent should be encouraging illegal behaviour, occasional or otherwise. Otherwise, they too are party to that crime.

Of course, we argue whether something should be illegal but that is not what this debate was ever about.

The legality is a factor, but not the most important one IMO. Anyone with a speeding ticket is going to have a job to take the moral high ground with their children using purely legality as an argument for the rights and wrongs of taking any course of action.

If you focus on the legality then you don't have an answer for whether it was sensible to pop over to Amsterdam smoke as many spliffs as you could while scoffing as many mushrooms as you can.

That would be competely legal there, but still not a good idea.

[SallyAnne]

Now can you see the absurdity in your position when you exclude the illegality factor? No parent should be encouraging illegal behaviour, occasional or otherwise. Otherwise, they too are party to that crime.

Denny, it's not so much encouraging illegal behaviour - it's about being realistic.

• Most people's kids are going to have a drink before they're 18.
• Most people's kids are going to have sex before they're 16.
• Most people's kids are going to dabble with drugs.
• Some people's son's might go with a prostitute.

Are you saying that you'd just stick on the blinkers and the "I'm not listening, la la la" earphones, and just pretend that kids aren't going to do this?

They always have Denny, and they always will, and the better chance a kid has of surviving their teens is to have as much honest information, love, non judgement and undying support they can possibly get.

[Denny]

Denny, it's not so much encouraging illegal behaviour - it's about being realistic.

• Most people's kids are going to have a drink before they're 18.
• Most people's kids are going to have sex before they're 16.
• Most people's kids are going to dabble with drugs.
• Some people's son's might go with a prostitute.

Are you saying that you'd just stick on the blinkers and the "I'm not listening, la la la" earphones, and just pretend that kids aren't going to do this?

They always have Denny, and they always will, and the better chance a kid has of surviving their teens is to have as much honest information, love, non judgement and undying support they can possibly get.

All you've done here, SA, is change the subject to include whether drugs should be illegal for the reasons you've given above - that kids do take drugs etc. That's a different argument altogether. You still seem to be taking it for granted that Coke taking is fairly safe if done occasionally and ignoring evidence of tragic circumstances where that hasn't been the case - precisely the reason it is illegal in the first place. It's not much use telling a teenager that they are simply going through rites of passage if they are in an emergency ward with a heart attack from a one off Coke binge.

[Denny]

If you focus on the legality then you don't have an answer for whether it was sensible to pop over to Amsterdam smoke as many spliffs as you could while scoffing as many mushrooms as you can.

That would be competely legal there, but still not a good idea.

Well, if it's not a good idea there then it can't be here either, can it!

So it should stay illegal.

[Gonzo]

Well, if it's not a good idea there then it can't be here either, can it!

So it should stay illegal.

So if they visit Amsterdam it will be OK for them, while they are there, to sit puffing spliffs constantly whilst gorging on a platter of spacecake and mushrooms?

Because that would be legal.

[Denny]

QUOTE=Gonzo;395272]So if they visit Amsterdam it will be OK for them, while they are there, to sit puffing spliffs constantly whilst gorging on a platter of spacecake and mushrooms?

Because that would be legal.[/QUOTE]

No it wouldn't be OK. I said I disapproved of condoning drug taking because they are illegal and not just for the reasons they are illegal - the medical facts.

I never said I would approve of them if the same drugs were ever made legal over here and dont, therefore, approve of the same dangerous drugs where they are legal either - such as in Holland. After all, the medical effects are still the same. Also, I don't think Coke is legal in Holland is it?

I fail to see how you could conclude that what I said about Sandy's situation and some of the permissive responses it attracted which I opposed follows onto your other point in this latest post of yours. There is no relationship between the two at all.

You seem to be putting words into my mouth. Still, at least you're not jabbing them into my arm or shoving them up my nose.

:confused

[Paula]

Hey kids it's harmless


please ingnore the following side effects

Cocaine in all its forms stimulates the central nervous system. It causes the heart to beat
more rapidly and blood vessels to constrict. This results in the demand for a greater
supply of blood. But the narrowed blood vessels are unable to deliver the volume of
blood demanded, which significantly increases the risk of cardiovascular incidents or
strokes. Initially, use of these drugs reduces appetite and makes the user feel more
alert, energetic, and self-confident—even more powerful.
With high doses, users can become delusional, paranoid, and even suffer acute toxic
psychosis. Blood pressure increases, which can cause strokes or heart attacks. In some
cases these effects have proven fatal. As the drug’s effects wear off, a depression (often
called a "crash") can set in, leaving the user feeling fatigued, jumpy, fearful, and anxious.


Paying the Price of Cocaine
A broad range of consequences include:
• Dependence and addiction
• Cardiovascular problems, including irregular heartbeat, heart
attack, and heart failure
• Neurological incidents, including strokes, seizures, fungal brain
infections, and hemorrhaging in tissue surrounding the brain
• Pulmonary effects, such as fluid in the lungs, aggravation of
asthma and other lung disorders, and respiratory failure
• Psychiatric complications, including psychosis, paranoia,
depression, anxiety disorders, and delusions
• Other effects include: sleeplessness, sexual dysfunction,
diminished sense of smell, perforated nasal septum, nausea, and
headaches.
• Fetal cocaine effects include premature separation of the
placenta, spontaneous abortion, premature labor, low birthweight
and head circumference at birth, greater chance of visual
impairment, mental retardation, genitourinary malformations, and
greater chance of developmental problems.
• For intravenous (IV) cocaine users, there is increased risk of
hepatitis, HIV infection, and endocarditis.

[Denny]

Hey kids it's harmless

Cocaine in all its forms stimulates the central nervous system. It causes the heart to beat
more rapidly and blood vessels to constrict. This results in the demand for a greater
supply of blood. But the narrowed blood vessels are unable to deliver the volume of
blood demanded, which significantly increases the risk of cardiovascular incidents or
strokes. Initially, use of these drugs reduces appetite and makes the user feel more
alert, energetic, and self-confident—even more powerful.
With high doses, users can become delusional, paranoid, and even suffer acute toxic
psychosis. Blood pressure increases, which can cause strokes or heart attacks. In some
cases these effects have proven fatal. As the drug’s effects wear off, a depression (often
called a "crash") can set in, leaving the user feeling fatigued, jumpy, fearful, and anxious.


Paying the Price of Cocaine
A broad range of consequences include:
• Dependence and addiction
• Cardiovascular problems, including irregular heartbeat, heart
attack, and heart failure
• Neurological incidents, including strokes, seizures, fungal brain
infections, and hemorrhaging in tissue surrounding the brain
• Pulmonary effects, such as fluid in the lungs, aggravation of
asthma and other lung disorders, and respiratory failure
• Psychiatric complications, including psychosis, paranoia,
depression, anxiety disorders, and delusions
• Other effects include: sleeplessness, sexual dysfunction,
diminished sense of smell, perforated nasal septum, nausea, and
headaches.
• Fetal cocaine effects include premature separation of the
placenta, spontaneous abortion, premature labor, low birthweight
and head circumference at birth, greater chance of visual
impairment, mental retardation, genitourinary malformations, and
greater chance of developmental problems.
• For intravenous (IV) cocaine users, there is increased risk of
hepatitis, HIV infection, and endocarditis.

Precisely.

Can't we add 'warped thinking' to this list.