Will the British trigger WWIII ?

[wendigo100]

Thankyou for a very clear answer- so how did Italy end up on the losing team?

Actually they didn't.

[M_B]

Thing is, if Hitler did not start WW2, then it would have been Stalin who did it, and I think in this case the roles would have reversed - Hitler and his forces would have been fighting for freedom of Europe - it sounds totally crazy, but if Stalin had another year then it would have been Soviet concentration camps in Europe, not German.

Why do you think Stalin would have invaded Europe and started WW2 if Hitler hadn't have started the war ? I'm not sure about that at all.

Also the hypothesis that Mussolini didn't want to go to war is dubious, particularly when he rejected Churchills plea for him to remain neutral. He just didn't want to go to war until France had been nullified because of it would have opened a front behind his troops in North Africa. Once France was out of it however, he leapt at the chance.

[Diver]

Wasn't that what Chamberlain's piece of paper was all about?

Would Google it, but I have decorating to do

[sasguru]

From memory, the Munich meeting between Chamberlain and Hitler agreed that Germany could have a slice of Checkoslovakia (Sudentenland I think?). Chamberlain thought that would appease Hitler and that would be the end of it, an assumption Hitler encouraged. A stupid assumption if ever there was one.
There are some who still advocate that Britain should have made peace with Germany. They forget that Hitler was not to be trusted.

[TimberWolf]

There are some who still advocate that Britain should have made peace with Germany. They forget that Hitler was not to be trusted.

Were it not for Churchill might that actually have been the case?

[AtW]

Why do you think Stalin would have invaded Europe and started WW2 if Hitler hadn't have started the war ? I'm not sure about that at all.

Because communists were following doctrine of the International Revolution - they were planning for war. You need to look at frenzy of military activities by Stalin just before the war in 1939 and before it hit him in 1941, particularly you need to pay attention to configuration of Soviet army immediately prior to German invasion - it was secretly deployed in configuration that is typical for suprise attack rather than defence. Read this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov) It is not perfect and has got minor issues, but I agree with the general idea of the author (GRU defector to UK), it finally started making sense a lot of very strange things that Soviet historians never bothered to explain, but they make perfect sense from point of view of invasion of Europe being prepared.

Also the hypothesis that Mussolini didn't want to go to war is dubious, particularly when he rejected Churchills plea for him to remain neutral. He just didn't want to go to war until France had been nullified because of it would have opened a front behind his troops in North Africa. Once France was out of it however, he leapt at the chance.

Mussolini did not want to go to war because he did not think Germany can easily beat France, remember that at the time French and British armies were pretty much everything and Germany was supposed to be disarmed, noone apart from top generals in Germany really knew true state of affairs, so Mussolini was not keen, but obviously as soon as he seen that Germany is actually winning he joined in! He definately did not like Hitler - even though politically he had no choice. I think big influence on real foreign policy was made by Ciano, the foreign minister who paid for this later with his life.

sasguru mentions Chamberlein - indeed he followed policy of appeasement and this is normally the main point that Soviets point to claiming that it is the British that guilty in war. But who back then could know just how fking crazy Hitler was? Sure there were signs, but previous recent WW1 gave big incentive to try to avoid new war. I think even if Hitler did not get Checkoslovakia then he would still start war - it was just matter of time, and if he had more time he'd achieve bigger scientific breakthroughs, perhaps even atom bomb before he started war. Though it has to be said that I am not confident that it would have been Stalin who'd start the war either in 1941 or 1942 at the latest. In this case Hitler would have found himself fighting for freedom of Europe, crazy thought isn't it?

[sasguru]

Were it not for Churchill might that actually have been the case?

Don't know. Churchill was right though. Imagine if Germany could concentrate all its resources on the Eastern Front. It's concievable they could have defeated Russia. And after that they would have picked off the bits of the Empire they fancied, with no means of dislodgement.

[AtW]

Don't know. Churchill was right though. Imagine if Germany could concentrate all its resources on the Eastern Front. It's concievable they could have defeated Russia. And after that they would have picked off the bits of the Empire they fancied, with no means of dislodgement.

Germany actually did concerntrate almost all resources there and they almost won - they really missed out by a month, and I think if Britain agreed peace with Germany in 1940 then Germany would have won war in USSR.

So in my view Russians should be grateful that the British were very stubborn and refused to make peace with Hitler after Dunkirk and later in the war when you could if you wanted. Naturally I think Britain is very lucky to have someone like Churchill here.

[shaunbhoy]

So in my view Russians should be grateful that the British were very stubborn and refused to make peace with Hitler after Dunkirk and later in the war when you could if you wanted.

Yes, they should be very grateful. But what do they do instead? Foist a weevil-brained dobbie like you upon us.

[AtW]

Yes, they should be very grateful. But what do they do instead? Foist a weevil-brained dobbie like you upon us.

That's the least of your worries shaun - they (powers that be in Russia) are certainly not grateful and crave for time when it was USSR. For this they sell nuclear and other tech to Iran, Siria, North Korea. And given all this Britain allows them to buy football clubs here.

It is a real pity Churchill is not alive now - he'd put things right. The mediocrity of current prime ministers (apart from Thatcher) is really shocking. Maybe if you had more Churchills you'd not lose the Empire