Is Germany the model country?

[darmstadt]

Well I've lived and worked here in Germany for nigh on 20 years now and I still prefer it here even though they're starting to emulate the best of British, i.e. binge drinking (kampftrinken,) chavs, "are you lookin' at my bird" mentatility, etc. Once that gets worse then the only civilised place left will be Afghanistan!

I can't be bothered answering some of the replies on here as I know the reality, says I!!!

[DodgyAgent]

I was talking to a friend of mine about the French economy last night. He says that the French have a very large manufacturing base and a large working class population. the middle classes were effectively wiped out by the French revolution leaving just an aristocratic or ruling class with a relatively small middle class.
france succeeds because it is very nationalistic and the French buy their own products. Also it costs very little to live in France and there is little point in earning lots of dosh as it is taxed to oblivion anyway. In terms of exports France does huge amounts of business in the middle east (hence its opposition to the Iraq war). France is also very clever at working the EU (it has already got its way over halting rising interest rates by the ECB), from keeping out Polish plumbers to working the CAP to sustain its inefficient farming industry to getting competitors products (usually the UK) banned.
Sounds good so far. france looks after its own and would never allow the uSA to extradite its bankers as it has done with the USA.
However there is a downside which I argued yesterday is that the French economy has no means to grow and attract inward investment or investment abroad to create new businesses. France literally has prohibitive employment laws. Whilst its large companies can grow by investing abroad there will come a time when these companies would themselves need to attract investment and benefit from globalisation to the point where there would be little point in them remaining in France.
There is also little prospect of getting its unemployed back to work. also no one speaks french and they would therefore not be able to deliver international services to compete with say the city.
In a way I was right to call it yesterdays economy, but the question is how long can it sustain itself particularly if its young people want to leave?

[sasguru]

I was talking to a friend of mine about the French economy last night. He says that the French have a very large manufacturing base and a large working class population. the middle classes were effectively wiped out by the French revolution leaving just an aristocratic or ruling class with a relatively small middle class.
france succeeds because it is very nationalistic and the French buy their own products. Also it costs very little to live in France and there is little point in earning lots of dosh as it is taxed to oblivion anyway. In terms of exports France does huge amounts of business in the middle east (hence its opposition to the Iraq war). France is also very clever at working the EU (it has already got its way over halting rising interest rates by the ECB), from keeping out Polish plumbers to working the CAP to sustain its inefficient farming industry to getting competitors products (usually the UK) banned.
Sounds good so far. france looks after its own and would never allow the uSA to extradite its bankers as it has done with the USA.
However there is a downside which I argued yesterday is that the French economy has no means to grow and attract inward investment or investment abroad to create new businesses. France literally has prohibitive employment laws. Whilst its large companies can grow by investing abroad there will come a time when these companies would themselves need to attract investment and benefit from globalisation to the point where there would be little point in them remaining in France.
There is also little prospect of getting its unemployed back to work. also no one speaks french and they would therefore not be able to deliver international services to compete with say the city.
In a way I was right to call it yesterdays economy, but the question is how long can it sustain itself particularly if its young people want to leave?

There are many valid points there that I agree with. But the French economy bumps along, the French have better hospitals (best health system in the world according to WHO) , roads, trains (TGV) and education system (Baccalaurate - not dumbed down A-levels) than we do. It may be argued that we have to be open to outside influences because we can't look after ourselves as they do.
My question is what about the over reliance of the UK on credit and consumerism to fuel growth? The economy is skewed heavily to consumerism (I read 70% in one article). That means any economic shocks that stop spending have a massive effect. We seem condemned to boom and bust (Labour claim to have abolished this but they have merely postponed the next bust).

[BlasterBates]

I have to say the German economy is generally sh**te but there are no TV programmes about buying houses.

[milanbenes]

DA, your post read very well until your turret's syndrome slipped in and you recycled your universal stagnant argument...

'However there is a downside which I argued yesterday is that the French economy has no means to grow and attract inward investment or investment abroad to create new businesses. France literally has prohibitive employment laws. Whilst its large companies can grow by investing abroad there will come a time when these companies would themselves need to attract investment and benefit from globalisation to the point where there would be little point in them remaining in France.
'

DA, you share this opinion for all of the european economies

if the UK is so good and so flexible how it that the majority of people are in non-jobs struggling to earn more than the minimum I mean maximum wage ?

I think you'll be recycling the same story for the next x years even after the UK economy pops which I hope for al of our sakes it does not

Milan.

[richard-af]

DA, your post read very well until your turret's syndrome slipped in and you recycled your universal stagnant argument...

It's fooking Tourette, knob, piss, tulipe, etc...

[NoddY]

However there is a downside which I argued yesterday is that the French economy has no means to grow and attract inward investment or investment abroad to create new businesses. France literally has prohibitive employment laws. Whilst its large companies can grow by investing abroad there will come a time when these companies would themselves need to attract investment and benefit from globalisation to the point where there would be little point in them remaining in France.
There is also little prospect of getting its unemployed back to work. also no one speaks french and they would therefore not be able to deliver international services to compete with say the city.
In a way I was right to call it yesterdays economy, but the question is how long can it sustain itself particularly if its young people want to leave?

Unfortunately the word 'investment' has been the subject of double speak, so I'm not sure what you mean. It should mean any process that raises the value of your time, i.e. someone is willing to value your time more than someone else's. On a national scale this means increases in productivity, innovation and creativity.

Investment has come to mean the acquisition of debt, or financial capital. Such inward investment should not be welcomed uncritically, after all, Africa sits around all day waiting for this type of 'investment' and look where it's at.

Britain too is a pass master at the latter, but with it brings dependency, lack of self belief and exporting of 'directing minds' & power. Is this the medicine you prescribe for France?

[wendigo100]

It's fooking Tourette, knob, piss, tulipe, etc...

Maybe he really meant Turret's Syndrome. I'm not sure what it is though. Something to do with castles perhaps?

[Goldenboy]

Any country that rates David Hasselhoff as a top musician has got to be suspect!!!!!

[Bagpuss]

Yep. And the Cotswolds, too. He's SUCH a maggot. All designed to stir the pot, and get more exposure. Which it has.

Great guy, loves his stereotypes but is often correct.