Is Germany the model country?

[sasguru]

I think you will find that the French have little to teach the brits about thrift. This quote from your own precious BBC site:

Amid growing concern about the size of France's public debt, which is now more than 66% of its gross domestic product,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6606863.stm

DA you really should stop talking about what you don't understand.
You are talking about national debt, not personal debt. The equivalent figure for Japan is 180%. Singapore has similarly high figures.This figure fluctuates quite dramatically with the economic cycle.
Clever investors are now suggesting getting out of UK and US and putting that money into Japan. Why would they do that if that figure mattered?
In the UK personal debt is about twice the average of the rest of Europe (do some research on the web). In a consumer driven ecomony this leads to booms when people can borrow, but busts when credit tightens up - as it is about to do.

HTH

[DodgyAgent]

telll me SA why is personal debt more dangerous (let us assume it is) than national debt. If the economy falters in France the people have to collectively pay it off. How is that so very different from personal debt being affected by a faltering economy. The consequences are the same irrespective of whether the govt owns money. In fact it is probably even worse in france as at least many brits have lots of equity in their house values to stave off hard times and supplement their pensions. Not only has France gat a huge national debt to pay off but its people have no assets of their own and will thus rely 100% on govt when they retire.

[wendigo100]

telll me SA why is personal debt more dangerous (let us assume it is) than national debt. If the economy falters in France the people have to collectively pay it off. How is that so very different from personal debt being affected by a faltering economy. The consequences are the same irrespective of whether the govt owns money. In fact it is probably even worse in france as at least many brits have lots of equity in their house values to stave off hard times and supplement their pensions. Not only has France gat a huge national debt to pay off but its people have no assets of their own and will thus rely 100% on govt when they retire.

Ah, but you're forgetting the money tree.

[sasguru]

telll me SA why is personal debt more dangerous (let us assume it is) than national debt. If the economy falters in France the people have to collectively pay it off. How is that so very different from personal debt being affected by a faltering economy. The consequences are the same irrespective of whether the govt owns money. In fact it is probably even worse in france as at least many brits have lots of equity in their house values to stave off hard times and supplement their pensions. Not only has France gat a huge national debt to pay off but its people have no assets of their own and will thus rely 100% on govt when they retire.

Here's your answer:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17050732/

National debt has been high loads of times. But countries can postpone paying indefinitely (or use many tricks in the book) while individuals can't.
Let's take Germany - personal consumption is low and German companies get money from exporting elsewhere. They are therefore cushioned if personal consumption falls. The UK economy (being a service economy) has a high reliance on the consumer rather than exporting to various countries, if the consumer stops spending (because there is no access to credit e.g.) there is a snowball effect in the whole economy.

[DodgyAgent]

What has thet got to do with the French economy?

[sasguru]

What has thet got to do with the French economy?

Because you claimed the French 65% national debt was problematical, when it clearly isn't (not that I'm saying the French economy doesn't have problems).
Japan, Singapore, and the US have all had national debts of above 100% in the past, even in economically stable times like the 50s.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, check out how little the French economy contracted in the early 90s and then compare with the Uk economy.
Boom and Bust - that's our problem. And a bigger boom will lead to a bigger bust. Labour claimed to have found an end to this. Do you believe them?

[DodgyAgent]

The UK has boomed for 18 years and France has been bust for the last 18 years. That is the only boom and bust I have encountered for two decades.

[sasguru]

The UK has boomed for 18 years and France has been bust for the last 18 years. That is the only boom and bust I have encountered for two decades.

France's rate of growth has been lower, it hasn't been bust. That's exactly my point. They have a low and steady rate of of growth where we have periodic busts where we wipe out the large gains of the booms.
They do need to carry out some reforms hence Sarkozy winning the election.
Between 1950s and 1970s, France had an average rate of growth of more than 5%, comfortably beating us.
The 2 economies are almost identical in size now, whereas in the earlier 20th century the UK was much larger. So in the long run they have done better.

[shaunbhoy]

The 2 economies are almost identical in size now, whereas in the earlier 20th century the UK was much larger. So in the long run they have done better.

So why don't you Feck off to France then you cherry-picking malcontent surrender monkey? It's not as if YOU bring much to the table with your interminable whining!
Leave Britain to us native Brits to worry about.

[sasguru]

So why don't you Feck off to France then you cherry-picking malcontent surrender monkey? It's not as if YOU bring much to the table with your interminable whining!
Leave Britain to us native Brits to worry about.

About the level of contribution I'd expect from a corporal.
PS What makes you think I'm not a native Brit? Or do you think identifying flaws and pointing out ways to fix them makes you a traitor?