Working Hours - Where Did My Life Go?

[Portent]

Hi there. My first post here. I'm in the same position as the original poster... doing silly numbers of hours and with no work/life balance at all. None of the extra hours are paid either.

I'm currently a permie with 20 years experienc. So my solution...

Contracting is looking very attractive to me right now. I'm happy to do the extra hours and at least I'd get paid for doing them!

[Francko]

Hi there. My first post here. I'm in the same position as the original poster... doing silly numbers of hours and with no work/life balance at all. None of the extra hours are paid either.

I'm currently a permie with 20 years experienc. So my solution...

Contracting is looking very attractive to me right now. I'm happy to do the extra hours and at least I'd get paid for doing them!

Well, let's put it this way. If you are willing to give free hours as a permie, I strongly doubt that you'd be able to get paid as a contractor for that. It's a common misperception that just because you are contracting then all companies will automatically pay you overtime. It's up to the individual to have them paid or taken back, either as a permie or as a contractor. But as I said, if you don't have the guts to get what you should be entitled to as a cheap permie, it will be even harder to get it as a more expensive contractor.

[cojak]

Are you saying that they don't do long hours in Switzerland? In my impression, they indeed do so and they are even proud that they are wasting most of their life in the office. To me it's madness. But then again I think it doesn't depend on the country

That's Zurich, try asking anyone in Vevey that and they'd laugh in your face...

[Francko]

That's Zurich, try asking anyone in Vevey that and they'd laugh in your face...

Yeah but I guess you get the same also if you ask someone in London or someone in Somerset or Devonshire.

[castoff101]

Professional Day

My contract quotes a rate per professional day or 7.5 hours, but I seem to be working about 8-8.5 hours most days. I try to get the job in hand at a reasonable point before I abandon it for the evening.

The permies also seem to put in longer hours than actually paid.

Somebody on here once said be the first in and the last to leave - right, good way of getting zero life outside the office!

Any offers on what a professional day means?

[Portent]

Well, let's put it this way. If you are willing to give free hours as a permie, I strongly doubt that you'd be able to get paid as a contractor for that. It's a common misperception that just because you are contracting then all companies will automatically pay you overtime. It's up to the individual to have them paid or taken back, either as a permie or as a contractor. But as I said, if you don't have the guts to get what you should be entitled to as a cheap permie, it will be even harder to get it as a more expensive contractor.

A fair point there. I work with many contractors (including some working for me so I get to sign there timesheets and thereby have a degree of visibility to their rates and hours). Generally most of them work to a professional day and I know this usually exceeds the number of hours I personally would be paid for. So I'm under no illusions there.

Would I have the guts to get what I'm entitled to? Hopefully but I suppose I won't know until I try it (still only considering if it's for me). The problem I have given myself is that I already try to work a professional day (even though I know I'm only paid a set number of hours). But as my workload and responsibility has increased I've taken on that extra burden. Yep, I know it's an issue of my own making ultimately. I'm at a crossroads now where it's time to do something about it. That may be contracting, or it may be pushing back the hours while staying as a permie.

A concern I have is the amount of offshoring and onshoring I'm seeing all around me. That will be reducing contract roles and of course suppressing salaries. Or is that an incorrect assumption? Perhaps I'll start a seperate thread about that one.

[Gonzo]

Any offers on what a professional day means?

There's no straight-forward answer on this, and it has been covered before on here.

My current contract does not state what this is. There is "an expectation" that I will do a 40 hour week, although I usually do 8.5 or 9 hours a day. There are times in the project lifecycle where a day will be a lot more than that so I have no qualms about putting in a shorter day from time to time if I feel like it.

My general rule of thumb is that <6 hours is a half day. >=6 hours is a day. Although I would expect the PM to have words with me if every day was 6 hours and that other people have other ideas on this.

[Francko]

Any offers on what a professional day means?

In my opinion it should mean that, although you work an average of 35/40 hours a day, you can alternate longer hours when most needed and take off hours when the workload is less. Now as most offices have some sort of budget problems and therefore the workload is well over an average of 35/40 hours a week, they want to convince you that it is professional to deprive you of some of your personal time. For this reason and because nobody will notice when you do 2-3 hours overtime but everybody will realise when you leave 2-3 hours early, I decided that it must take exceptional circumstances to do a "professional day" (i.e. working longer than expected) and never on a voluntary base.

[castoff101]

But it so hard to work out without anybody noticing! None of colleagues, permies and contract seem to want to go home at a reasonable time. Some sort of competition to see who is the last one out of the door?

[Gonzo]

But it so hard to work out without anybody noticing! None of colleagues, permies and contract seem to want to go home at a reasonable time. Some sort of competition to see who is the last one out of the door?

This is common if you are working in banking in London. I have never understood it myself, when I was permie I never worked late.

I have seen a couple of approaches to this, one bloke I worked with always stayed late but never started before 9:30 on the basis that everyone notices if you work late but noone ever notices if you are in late.

Another hung his coat in a cupboard near the exit. He would be talking to the people he sat with and intimate that he was going to talk to someone in another part of the office. That way noone was ever sure about what time he actually left.