Lovely New Britain

[gingerjedi]

It is systemic and endemic.
It is not beyond redemption, it never will be, but it will take maor than a few good men and true to recover it.
I do not see a recovery as long as the politicians are palying fast and loose with our nation by delivering populist policy with no substance and ignoring or squashing those who may have the will to rebuild.
It will not be easy and it will probably be painful possibly catastrophically so for some, but we can do it.
It starts at the bottom.
We need to motivate and mobilise the dependant and the needy, without endangering the welfare of those who can not help themselves.
We need to offer them jobs that they see as worthwhile even if they are meenial. We need to stop pandering to their wishes and instead provide them with the means and aspirations to achive.
We need to let the achievers run with the ball, encourage them to do better by giving them incentives instead of hurdles.
We need to make sure the wealthy realise their responsibility to put back their wealth into the community that generated it.

The only political party who gets anywhere near this is unelectable.


** This could be a much bigger post, but idont have time.

Where do you stand on drugs? Surely this is a simple one to sort out by decriminalising and controlling supply, I've read that up to 60% of all crime is drug related in some way or another but if any politician has the balls to tackle this one head on they are whipped back into place by the party hierarchy because they know it won't be popular.

[richard-af]

whatever is run needs to have the dynamics of choice, competition and responsibility. The state is the worst runner of anything so why on earth one would want it to run "essentials" I dont know. Utilities like everything else should be run on the basis of making profit. It is the profit motive that makes things run and gives them accountability. I have never understood this mistrust of profit.

The challenge the govt should have is creating effective competitive environments that are not by nature competitive. In turn govts themselves should make their own quangos competitive. Problems I know, but no one seems to be discussing them from any other angle such as this.

One word: hospitals. Another: trains.

Less-than-brilliantly-run they may have been (er, like now), but there was still a progressive flow. And new goverment had no choice but to invest, and maintain. Not so with PFIs and other laughable con tricks.

[richard-af]

Where do you stand on drugs? Surely this is a simple one to sort out by decriminalising and controlling supply, I've read that up to 60% of all crime is drug related in some way or another but if any politician has the balls to tackle this one head on they are whipped back into place by the party hierarchy because they know it won't be popular.

Can't be done. It'd be the biggest "floodgates opening" ever for other currently illegal stuff being made legal. It's such a cop-out. What if the same "logic" was applied to, say, murder:
"There's too much murder in the UK"
"Well then, make it legal"
"Oh yes, never thought of that"

[The Lone Gunman]

Can't be done. It'd be the biggest "floodgates opening" ever for other currently illegal stuff being made legal. It's such a cop-out. What if the same "logic" was applied to, say, murder:
"There's too much murder in the UK"
"Well then, make it legal"
"Oh yes, never thought of that"

That is the singular most ridiculous argument I ever heard on this subject!
Unlike murder, burglary or any other crime drugs in themselves do not harm others, only the user.
There are very sound reasons for decriminalising drugs.
The suply and control is currently in the hands of the criminals as are the users.

You wouldnt understand the arguments.

[Bagpuss]

Did this happen before or after the kids started carrying knives?

The internet happened after, a few hundred years after

[richard-af]

There are very sound reasons for decriminalising drugs.

Name ONE country that's done it and reaped a reward. You can't.

And the point I made was that it'd lead to decriminalisation of a lot more. No more expensive court cases, police investigations, etc.

[Hart-floot]

Unlike murder, burglary or any other crime drugs in themselves do not harm others, only the user.

You wouldnt understand the arguments.

What about the tax-payer funding of rehabilitation centres, asylums full of kids who become psychotic are smoking skunk etc Or is that a price worth paying so you can smoke a joint without harm to others?!?

There are no easy answers - personally i think cannabis should be re-criminalised.

[Old Greg]

Can't be done. It'd be the biggest "floodgates opening" ever for other currently illegal stuff being made legal. It's such a cop-out. What if the same "logic" was applied to, say, murder:
"There's too much murder in the UK"
"Well then, make it legal"
"Oh yes, never thought of that"

The US found it necessary to end Prohibition to remove alcohol from the hands of gangsters and it's hard to argue with the outcome. Prohibition of drugs has not worked. Legalisation and control are not cure-alls but from a harm reduction perspective would IMO be better than the current situation.

On another note, (IMO again) the cause of many of the problems we see in terms of lack of communities come from the economic reforms of the '80s. The traditional certainties of working class life - play by the rules and you'll be ok, fair day's work for a fair day's pay, job for life if you work hard disappeared. And when they disappeared, they took with them the cornerstones of working class life - work-place and union social structures. These were replaced by chronic (and in some cases inter-generational) unemployment or casual work / short-term contracts with employers with high staff turnover and no interest in your future. These are not the circumstances in which communities thrive. Some people got on their bike - a lot didn't and their kids grew up in a different world.

[gingerjedi]

Can't be done. It'd be the biggest "floodgates opening" ever for other currently illegal stuff being made legal. It's such a cop-out. What if the same "logic" was applied to, say, murder:
"There's too much murder in the UK"
"Well then, make it legal"
"Oh yes, never thought of that"

So the current system works does it? We spend a ridiculous amount of time and money trying to police this and it makes no difference what so ever.

Your analogy is not a good one, do you think the only reason people don't commit murder is because they are scared of getting caught? Most murders are either gang/drug related or crimes of passion with little thought of the consequence.

[Old Greg]

What about the tax-payer funding of rehabilitation centres, asylums full of kids who become psychotic are smoking skunk etc Or is that a price worth paying so you can smoke a joint without harm to others?!?

There are no easy answers - personally i think cannabis should be re-criminalised.

I think you mean cannabis should be reclassified, not reciminalised. It's already a Class C (illegal) drug.

The links between cannabis and psychosis have been badly mis-reported by the press over the last few days. And overall the social harm of cannabis is significantly lower than of alcohol.