And The Point of Live Earth Was?

[DodgyAgent]

Won't somebody think of the children?

which is why we need to unravel the truth from the personal agendas of those who claim to know what is best.

[dang65]

The human race will invent a replacement for oil, we have an amazing ability to adapt.

How's work progressing on that by-the-way? It's just that the human race might need to get a move on.

[DodgyAgent]

How's work progressing on that by-the-way? It's just that the human race might need to get a move on.

OK so we might have to wait a couple of weeks between the oil runnning out and the peat to be dug up from the Irish bogs, but so what?

[Diver]

Affect.
HTH...

I stand corrected O might Lizardlike one

[dang65]

This being said I have already stated that I agree climate change is happening, I disagree that it is all our fault and that we have sped it up. I also disagree with the carbon footprint CO2 arguments. Google effects of water vapour on climate change and have a nice read, you can then come back and rant about the use of kettles and how we should ban them for the good of the environment

There's yet another report out today confirming that solar activity and the water vapour theory are incorrect. That theory was put out on the greatly discredited programme "The Great Global Warming Swindle" back in March, a programme which, incredibly, appears to have influenced the beliefs of most of the population of this country despite endless evidence and scientific research showing that it is simply untrue. I know I've mentioned it before, but this is shockingly similar to the vaccine/autism connection made by one article in The Lancet, but taken as gospel by millions despite endless evidence which completely discredited it.

Conspiracy culture seems to have taken over this country to such an extent that people are actually only willing to believe individuals who directly contradict whatever the established authorities say, even if these people are complete crackpots. If someone made a programme which 'proved' that tobacco smoking was completely harmless because of research by a bloke in his garden shed in Macclesfield then that would instantly become the accepted truth by the British public, regardless of decades of evidence and complete medical consensus to the contrary.

[Ardesco]

On Earth, the major natural greenhouse gases are water vapor, which causes about 36–70% of the greenhouse effect (not including clouds); carbon dioxide (CO2), which causes 9–26%; methane (CH4), which causes 4–9%; and ozone, which causes 3–7%.

Now I have never said anything about Solar Radiation levels and I haven't watched the program that you refer to, however if you look at the above you will see that water vapour is by far the worst gas in the atmosphere when it comes to global warming.

With this in mind why are we not looking at ways to reduce water vapour rather than C02? Perhaps because we can't easily pin water vapour on human activities... Why are we looking at water cells as a green way of producing energy because it doesn't release CO2 like oil based fuels into the atmosphere when water vapour is obviously a much greater threat.

I saw something on the news the other day where they were suggesting we feed cows a special feed to stop them farting to reduce greenhouse gasses and save the planet, I mean how ridiculous has this got now?

You reject the fact that water vapour has anything to do with it, where do you get this "information" from?

[gingerjedi]

I saw something on the news the other day where they were suggesting we feed cows a special feed to stop them farting to reduce greenhouse gasses and save the planet, I mean how ridiculous has this got now?

I reckon if all the self righteous eco-sheep stopped bleating we could reduce gas emissions still further and get on with preparing for the inevitable rather than trying to stop a juggernaut with a feather.

[dang65]

if you look at the above you will see that water vapour is by far the worst gas in the atmosphere when it comes to global warming.

"The above" doesn't say that though. The rest of the Wiki entry about water vapour says:

Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 90%. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales (for example, near irrigated fields).

Current state-of-the-art climate models include fully interactive clouds. They show that an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2

So, the amount of water vapour remains constant as things stand. We're not contributing to it by boiling kettles, FFS. The problem is with the anthropogenic gases (the stuff wot we make) which is making the atmosphere warmer, and that could increase the amount of water vapour in the air because more water would be able to evaporate into the newly warm air than into the existing cold air.

So if you live in fear of water vapour then you should be worrying about anthropogenic gas production. You know, the stuff everyone - except for all the scientists - is claiming we have nothing to do with.

[Ardesco]

So, the amount of water vapour remains constant as things stand. We're not contributing to it by boiling kettles, FFS. The problem is with the anthropogenic gases (the stuff wot we make) which is making the atmosphere warmer, and that could increase the amount of water vapour in the air because more water would be able to evaporate into the newly warm air than into the existing cold air.

You are obviously missing my point

They show that an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2

They are saying that CO2 starts the process off, but if warming is naturally occuring anyway the cycle shown above will occur anyway without CO2. Therefore CO2 is not the problem when it comes to global warming, it is water vapour in the air that is getting heated. Surely the best way to reduce global warming would be to find a way to reduce the levels of water vapour in the atmosphere rather than pissing about with CO2 levels because even if we do reduce CO2 levels the warming cycle caused by water vapour will still occur if temperatures rise.

Also Wiki is probably not the best place to start looking for in depth scientific explanations of how things work, if I got a large number of people together i'm sure I could write something saying that global warming is caused by giant alien lizards with thier heat rays using the planet as a gigantic barbeque. In 1000 years they will come down and feast on our lightly toasted corpses....

[gingerjedi]

These graphs do show a very distinct link with Co2 and earth temperature but at the same time they show it is an entirely natural phenomenon.

http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/02.htm

No doubt someone will now post the hockey stick graph that conveniently only ever goes back 1000 years.