Clueless .....

[ratewhore]

Isn't that clients and EBs are doing: wanting a casual perma temp with no rights whilst hiring a limited co. contractor?

My business sells a service - that IS THE POINT! It doesn't sell myself down the river to suit the whims and aspirations of some money grabbing pimp or jealous permie client who just wants the satisfaction of inconveniencing me to the hilt with unnecessary travelling and rule following but with their finger on the 'instant termination' button when it suits them.

POT KETTLE BLACK.

Denny, you're missing the real point. You consider yourself to be in business proper yet your energies seem to be consumed with changing the agency model.

Forget the agencies, market yourself, run breakfast briefings, run a marketing campaign, move from agencies to outsourced sales (there are some very good companies out there doing outsourced sales).

That's the way ahead for you. Channel your energy into something more constructive and positive.

[shoes]

Isn't that clients and EBs are doing: wanting a casual perma temp with no rights whilst hiring a limited co. contractor?

My business sells a service - that IS THE POINT! It doesn't sell myself down the river to suit the whims and aspirations of some money grabbing pimp or jealous permie client who just wants the satisfaction of inconveniencing me to the hilt with unnecessary travelling and rule following but with their finger on the 'instant termination' button when it suits them.

POT KETTLE BLACK.

I don't think you can even see the assumptions you are making. The real world isn't fitting your view of how it should be so you get angry. Other people have argued these points I am touching on here more eloquently than I could and you don't seem to have grasped it, so Im giving up.

My response therefore is going to be


OOoooo! Get her!!

[Churchill]

Lucky sods. How do I get my agency onto Denny's "prefer not to deal with" list?

Ask to see her Norks!

[DodgyAgent]

Isn't that clients and EBs are doing: wanting a casual perma temp with no rights whilst hiring a limited co. contractor?

My business sells a service - that IS THE POINT! It doesn't sell myself down the river to suit the whims and aspirations of some money grabbing pimp or jealous permie client who just wants the satisfaction of inconveniencing me to the hilt with unnecessary travelling and rule following but with their finger on the 'instant termination' button when it suits them.

POT KETTLE BLACK.

You do not sell yourself at all, you simply expect the whole world to fall in according to how you want things. If anyone dares to not fit into your me,me,me, I want, I want, little world they are accused of being exploititive, or money grabbing, or servants of the IR. not one single attempt do you bother to make to try and understand what others (those that pay your wages) want. Funnily enough if the client wants an "instant termination button" and is prepared to pay for it then let him have it.

[DodgyAgent]

Ask to see her Norks!

I will ignore that until my education program becomes well and truly futile

[darmstadt]

I've been contracting on and off for over 20 years now and I still don't know what IR35 is...

[IR35 Avoider]

Something I like to quote, to wind-up the "I'm a real business" merchants, is the definition by a (admittedly crap) writer of personal finance books:-

You have a "real business" if it is theoretically possible for you to take a year off from your business and upon your return to find it as profitable as when you worked there.

If you don't fit this definition, you are self-employed.

He gave as an example a small building contractor employing several people; he's not a "real business" because there's no realistic prospect of appointing a substitute to take over his role. (Presumably anyone willing and able to be that substitute might as well just go into business for themselves and keep all the money.)

To be fair, I'm missing the point here, because what contractors usually mean when they say they're a "real business" is that they are self-employed rather than employed, and should be taxed as such.

[DodgyAgent]

Something I like to quote, to wind-up the "I'm a real business" merchants, is the definition by a (admittedly crap) writer of personal finance books:-

You have a "real business" if it is theoretically possible for you to take a year off from your business and upon your return to find it as profitable as when you worked there.

If you don't fit this definition, you are self-employed.

He gave as an example a small building contractor employing several people; he's not a "real business" because there's no realistic prospect of appointing a substitute to take over his role. (Presumably anyone willing and able to be that substitute might as well just go into business for themselves and keep all the money.)

To be fair, I'm missing the point here, because what contractors usually mean when they say they're a "real business" is that they are self-employed rather than employed, and should be taxed as such.

Quite right

DA in "Im going to f*** off for a year and leave my contractors to earn me a living" mode

[pickle]

[QUOTE=IR35 Avoider]You have a "real business" if it is theoretically possible for you to take a year off from your business and upon your return to find it as profitable as when you worked there.

If you don't fit this definition, you are self-employed.

QUOTE]

Well said, I think this is the point that Denny is really missing. The UK contract marketplace is a marketplace for the self-employed, regardless of the payment viechle used (ltd, brolly, sole trader etc).

Denny, being self-employed can be great. Really good fun, flexible, plenty of cash, sense of freedom. You really should learn to enjoy the ride, extract maximum cash for minimum effort and be happy.

I recommend picking up a copy of Go It Alone (Geoff Burch)
:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Go-Alone-Str...8107848&sr=8-1

I think you will get a lot out of it, and it might calm some of that first year angst you seem to have bottled up.

Seriously, its a great read.

[shaunbhoy]

Denny,
you must be a riot at parties. An egocentric pretentious weirdo with a collection of chips on your shoulders. Yeeecchhh!!