Has Futuro Gone Bust?

[AtW]

Just in case the point I am making escapes you it is that high commissions fuel unfair competition that harms consumer choice and thus should be as illegal (or more precisely regulated) as monopolies.

[DodgyAgent]

Sales people just lie - otherwise they lose the job, if they get caught then the company denies it (the company) actually had a policy to BS people into buying stuff that is not best for them, and such company would normally have forced sackings if certain minimum level of sales are not met - sounds familiar? In this artificial structure the only consequence is that salespeople will end up misselling.

What's your sales staff turnover?

Sure good sales people should get extra, however companies that become sales lead end up making actual product redundant - it all becomes about marketing and more precisely amount of commission that manufacturer will give - sales staff will lie in order to stay in the job and consumer will get product that is not best for them... all the better for salespeople because they can sell new junk again later.

So what you are saying is that the consumer is too stupid to consider different products and services and to exercise choice?
If salesmen lie then so do you. I have no sales people as I do all the selling myself, so according to your logic I am a liar! (which I am just like everyone else). If you are saying that salesmen are fraudulent then there are laws to protect consumers. I do not really understand what you are saying. If you are suggesting that a salesperson should ofer an entirely objective view on his products then:

1. what is a subjective view?
2. Why on Earth would a company be stupid enough to employ salespeople who denigrate their own products/services in pursuit of objectivity, which is impossible to define anyway???

I know that my agency delivers a better service thean computer people, and that computer people salesmen (according to your twisted logic)should really be saying to their customers that Dodgy agency contracting is better than their services. But to be honest I do not give a tulip unless they get in my way.

I will give you an example of where govt has tried to intervene in order to introduce "hoesty" in selling and that is pensions.

Before, pension companies could sell pensions as they liked making huge commissions with the spoils going to the best sales companies. the govt intervened and went too far in reining back sales led organisations. What happened? No one sells pensions because there is no money in it except over the internet and the taxpayer then has to foot the Bill to look after people in their old age.

[DodgyAgent]

Just in case the point I am making escapes you it is that high commissions fuel unfair competition that harms consumer choice and thus should be as illegal (or more precisely regulated) as monopolies.

Why?. If I am paid to sell a product then why should I not be paid according to how well I sell?????

I sell my business and the profits are linked directly to my success/failure to sell it. are you saying that someone somewhere should pay me a basic salary??? Who??

Same with your SKA. It is your product, developed by you. If you were to employ someone to sell it would you not gear their pay accordingly??

[AtW]

If consumers were smart they would all act in a way that would ensure their own long term benefits, however consumers are stupid and fall for things like "free" mobile phone or that "pension" scam.

It is likely that your agency is doing better job than others, the issue here is not what you do - I could not care less to be honest, I am merely debating here philosophically what happens when commissions become a big part (perhaps above 25-35%) of the renumeration package: this leads to misselling, this is inevitable when otherwise sales person won't get enough money to live on and even more so when salesperson will get fired after failing to reach set sales targets - that kind of system is designed to ensure that on one hand sales staff will do anything to get a sale (this means misselling), and on another hand company will have plausible deniability - they will blame specific salesperson (when caught) rather than company policy which in effect coerced their own staff into misselling.

Here is example to you from real life that I am sure you won't find suprising: on 31st of the month staff sold 80% of product A that coincidentally had the highest profit marging for the company, next day - 1st of the next month, product B from another company suddenly started offering more profit to the company in case of sales - any guess what was the top selling product on that day?

[DodgyAgent]

If consumers were smart they would all act in a way that would ensure their own long term benefits, however consumers are stupid and fall for things like "free" mobile phone or that "pension" scam.

It is likely that your agency is doing better job than others, the issue here is not what you do - I could not care less to be honest, I am merely debating here philosophically what happens when commissions become a big part (perhaps above 25-35%) of the renumeration package: this leads to misselling, this is inevitable when otherwise sales person won't get enough money to live on and even more so when salesperson will get fired after failing to reach set sales targets - that kind of system is designed to ensure that on one hand sales staff will do anything to get a sale (this means misselling), and on another hand company will have plausible deniability - they will blame specific salesperson (when caught) rather than company policy which in effect coerced their own staff into misselling.

Here is example to you from real life that I am sure you won't find suprising: on 31st of the month staff sold 80% of product A that coincidentally had the highest profit marging for the company, next day - 1st of the next month, product B from another company suddenly started offering more profit to the company in case of sales - any guess what was the top selling product on that day?

So the answer is communism is it? because communism was based on the principle that individuals were incapable of making their own decisions. One persons misselling is another persons bargain AtW. it is clear that you are still rooted to the command economy principles of the soviet Union. I think Stalin, Lenin, Mao and all the others like them believed as you do that they know what is good for people better than the people themselves.

[AtW]

No, the answer is not communism: ideally the answer should be much smarter consumers, this is probably impossible to achieve, so I think at the very minimum all sales people should declare up front what commission they personall and the company as well make from products/services that they recommend, in fact just like banks are required to show APR all products should have profit shown next to the price, this way consumer will have a chance to see if salesperson recommends something only because it has got higher margin.

[AtW]

is the product the cheapest contractors you can put forward to wider your mark ups which the client is stupid enough to buy?

Bingo.

I called Dodgy parasite first

[tim123]

I have to say I owe my arsey client bugger all loyalty now. They are even congratulating themselves on having got us moved to another agent with an effective date of yesterday - like we couldn't have done that ourselves and faster! They (apparently) can't pay me as they are worried about a double liability to the receivers if (when, more like) they are appointed.

I understand how you feel. Your client is being stupid. If you haven't sent your timesheets and invoice in to the agents, there is no way that they can have a liabiliy for paying the agency for the hours because the agency can't prove that you worked those hours.

Whilst it is not legally correct for you to invoice and be paid for the hours direct, the practicality is that the agency can do little to get the money instead. A good client would be negotiating a transfer of all un invoiced hours. If it were me, I would be accidentally wiping the contents of my hard drive and leaving the building.

tim

[WindyAnna]

Apparently the affairs of Futuro are now in the hands of these accountants:

www.menzies.co.uk

Windy

[milanbenes]

it is examples like this that make the CUK forum a golden resource to contactors

Milan.