Atheist arguments again Christianity

[TheGreenBastard]

Augustine didn't prove it, silly. He just stated the same thing. That talking about "who made God" is daft, because God brought time into being and there's no such things as an event before time. The physicists just happened to prove it mathematically.

I'm interested in what these "physicists" proved, and where is that evidence. The big bang singularity is theorised as the start of our observable source of finite space time, all bets are off for before that singularity event (there's many interesting theories). As Stephen Hawking said, what was prior to the singularity is "undefined".

[Gibbon]

Interestingly, the virgin birth seems to have been added on to the story sometime after the death of Christ; the reason being, historically gods were traditionally born of virgins.

Nope demi-gods were the result of divine - human (virgin) interaction or usually rape.

Leda raped by Zeus as a swan - Helen (of Troy) and Polydeuces
Danae raped by Zeus as a shower of gold - Perseus
Alcmene seduced by Zeus impersonating her husband - Heracles
Peleus seduced by Thetis - Achilles
Anchises seduced by Aphrodite ( who wouldn't be?) - Aeneas
Daphne refused Apollo's advances and got her father to turn her into a laurel tree, the prize of victory at the Olympics. (BTW Bernini's sculpture in the villa Borghese of this moment is sublime)

You get the picture.

[Paddy]

Nope demi-gods were the result of divine - human (virgin) interaction or usually rape.

Leda raped by Zeus as a swan - Helen (of Troy) and Polydeuces
Danae raped by Zeus as a shower of gold - Perseus
Alcmene seduced by Zeus impersonating her husband - Heracles
Peleus seduced by Thetis - Achilles
Anchises seduced by Aphrodite ( who wouldn't be?) - Aeneas
Daphne refused Apollo's advances and got her father to turn her into a laurel tree, the prize of victory at the Olympics. (BTW Bernini's sculpture in the villa Borghese of this moment is sublime)

You get the picture.

Virgin births in history pre-date Christian Jesus Christmas story

Romulus and Remus, twin founders of Rome, born of the virgin Rhea Silvia. In ancient Egypt, Ra (the Sun) was born of a virgin mother, Net; Horus was the son of the virgin Isis.

The Phrygo-Roman god, Attis, was born of a virgin, Nana, on December 25. It resonates because he went on to be killed and was resurrected.

In ancient Greece, Dionysos was the son of either the virgin Semele or the virgin Persephone. Persephone was also the virgin mother of Jason. And Plato’s mother, Perictione, was a virgin.

The list goes on. Hinduism, Buddhism and ancient China all have their share of them and none is more or less believable than any other myth, fable or symbol.

[Old Greg]

Virgin births in history pre-date Christian Jesus Christmas story

Does this mean that the Great Squirrel Mother is AtW's daughter?

[NotAllThere]

I'm interested in what these "physicists" proved, and where is that evidence. The big bang singularity is theorised as the start of our observable source of finite space time, all bets are off for before that singularity event (there's many interesting theories). As Stephen Hawking said, what was prior to the singularity is "undefined".

These physicists proved that mathematically, assuming the current standard cosmological model is correct, what Hawking suggested is correct. They also proved that some non-standard models like cyclical universes or Tegmark's evolving/eternal universes, also require an initial singularity prior to which time is undefined.

Hawking's last paper: Stephen Hawking’s (almost) last paper: putting an end to the beginning of the universe | Science | AAAS scraps the singularity entirely.

Anyway - there's only a singularity mathematically where the models break down - just like with a black hole. Whether that translates into reality is anyone's guess. But it's all fascinating, quite speculative but cool stuff. At least, I find it so.

[NotAllThere]

Virgin births in history pre-date Christian Jesus Christmas story

The ancient Egyptian sun god Ra's mother, Net, was a virgin, according to their mythology.
The Second Book of Enoch says that Melchizedek was born of a virgin,

[Eirikur]

I'm interested in what these "physicists" proved, and where is that evidence. The big bang singularity is theorised as the start of our observable source of finite space time, all bets are off for before that singularity event (there's many interesting theories). As Stephen Hawking said, what was prior to the singularity is "undefined".

Same can be said about a god/ess what was before that? Most relifreaks will tell you that their chosen form of skyfairy was always there.

In case of a singularity there is no "before" as time didn't exit inside the singularity

[vetran]

Virgin births in history pre-date Christian Jesus Christmas story

Its almost as if the religion was made up based on a series of existing stories.

Are biblical stories just retellings of ancient mythological accounts? | Ancient Origins

[Gibbon]

Virgin births in history pre-date Christian Jesus Christmas story

The 12 gods in the Greco-Roman pantheon are Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, and either Hestia or Dionysus.

Dionysus is the only one with a mortal mother but is not included in most ancient lists.

Romulus and Remus are not gods and Isis is a goddess as is Nana.

My point being that most divine-human interactions resulted in demi gods not fully divine beings. Christianity of the Nicene creed, of which the Roman Catholic and most protestant churches are, is quite novel in this although there was strong and common resistance to this belief, particularly from Alexandria and the Bishop Arius who led the Arian heresy. The Goths who sacked Rome in 410 AD were all Arian. Many scholars attribute that the resistance to the Nicene creed in the east led to an easy acceptance of Islam as Christ is an important prophet, but not God himself.

It wasn't until 430 AD that Mary was fully recognised as Theokotos, mainly as a foil against the Arians. In fact until this time she was of little importance until the Church had to wrestle with a seemingly dual divinity in God and Christ and so made them one and the same, so Mary went from mother of Christ to mother of God.

[Old Greg]

The 12 gods in the Greco-Roman pantheon are Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, and either Hestia or Dionysus.

Dionysus is the only one with a mortal mother but is not included in most ancient lists.

Romulus and Remus are not gods and Isis is a goddess as is Nana.

My point being that most divine-human interactions resulted in demi gods not fully divine beings. Christianity of the Nicene creed, of which the Roman Catholic and most protestant churches are, is quite novel in this although there was strong and common resistance to this belief, particularly from Alexandria and the Bishop Arius who led the Arian heresy. The Goths who sacked Rome in 410 AD were all Arian. Many scholars attribute that the resistance to the Nicene creed in the east led to an easy acceptance of Islam as Christ is an important prophet, but not God himself.

It wasn't until 430 AD that Mary was fully recognised as Theokotos, mainly as a foil against the Arians. In fact until this time she was of little importance until the Church had to wrestle with a seemingly dual divinity in God and Christ and so made them one and the same, so Mary went from mother of Christ to mother of God.

Have a read of Philostorgius (or what remains of his reconstructed writings), if you haven't previously.