Who should pay a lot more tax?

[northernladuk]

Who should pay a lot more tax?Who should pay a lot more tax?

Only little people pay tax so got to be them. Easy.

[vwdan]

You are looking at the low end where dividend tax (even if it was 0) is not creating any material issues (tax revenue wise).

If dividend tax rates are aligned with income taxes then £2k will be tax free (as long as within 12k allowance)

I dunno if we're arguing across each other here, or what. I'm not saying the gulf is huge as it is, I'm just stating part of why we get so much heat is that plus lack of NI etc.

The realistic answer is simply to make it so that a contractor earning £100k in, one form or another, pays much the same tax to the treasury as a permie earning £100k. Minus expenses.

[Now quite how we cater for the lack of sick pay, redundancy and all that I'm not quite sure....]

[AtW]

I dunno if we're arguing across each other here, or what. I'm not saying the gulf is huge as it is, I'm just stating part of why we get so much heat is that plus lack of NI etc.

The real issue for dividends vs PAYE is massive Employer NICs which are unlimited (!), unless Employee NIC which max out at 2% pretty quickly.

They can control it with corp tax however - jack it up back to 28%, and divi rate to income tax level (so 38.5% goes to 45% or even 50% with new bands) and problem (of having tax revenues reduced due to Ltd usage) is reduced massively AND extra revenue on top from divid earners who got nothing to do with working (owning shares).

It's getting bonkers already tho - Germany got 25% flat rate on dividends, that's Germany FFS! If I were to move there I'd save nearly half in tax, that's crazy situation for UK already, never mind with future tax increases. I guess they are counting on Brexit reducing mobility to get out easily.

[BR14]

The real issue for dividends vs PAYE is massive Employer NICs which are unlimited (!), unless Employee NIC which max out at 2% pretty quickly.

They can control it with corp tax however - jack it up back to 28%, and divi rate to income tax level (so 38.5% goes to 45% or even 50% with new bands) and problem (of having tax revenues reduced due to Ltd usage) is reduced massively AND extra revenue on top from divid earners who got nothing to do with working (owning shares).

It's getting bonkers already tho - Germany got 25% flat rate on dividends, that's Germany FFS! If I were to move there I'd save nearly half in tax, that's crazy situation for UK already, never mind with future tax increases. I guess they are counting on Brexit reducing mobility to get out easily.

So go there then FFS!
cozy up with your miserable chums.

[Paddy]

Here's a poll

Where is the AndyW option?

[Dark Black]

We should all pay more tax.

The truth is that if we want a society that has access to state provided services then we have to pay for them.

This, but I would be much happier (well maybe not happier but more amenable) paying more tax if I knew those services were being run efficiently. I'm certainly not referring to all the medical staff in the NHS* who do an amazing job with limited resources, but to the layers of middle management who (as far as I can tell) just leach money from the system without proving much in the way of useful input.


*NHS is just an example, other state provided services are available.

[ladymuck]

This, but I would be much happier (well maybe not happier but more amenable) paying more tax if I knew those services were being run efficiently. I'm certainly not referring to all the medical staff in the NHS* who do an amazing job with limited resources, but to the layers of middle management who (as far as I can tell) just leach money from the system without proving much in the way of useful input.


*NHS is just an example, other state provided services are available.

It's not so much middle management - it's more the cronyism that sees contracts awarded on tenuous grounds to mates of mates or companies utterly unsuitable for the task. You'd think HMG would have a robust way of assessing and awarding contracts for services.

[AtW]

Fair way is to increase income tax by same percentage points for everybody, ie: +5% will raise (I think) 25-30 bln per year, where as +5% to existing 45% will be less than billion.

It’s fair, but also political suicide for either Labour or Tories, whereas in Europe it is generally accepted than while high earner pay as much or somewhat more than in the UK other earners pay actually more in direct taxes.

[AtW]

You'd think HMG would have a robust way of assessing and awarding contracts for services.

They outsourced that job to a crony’s mate’s flat sharer!

[ladymuck]

Fair way is to increase income tax by same percentage points for everybody, ie: +5% will raise (I think) 25-30 bln per year, where as +5% to existing 45% will be less than billion.

It’s fair, but also political suicide for either Labour or Tories, whereas in Europe it is generally accepted than while high earner pay as much or somewhat more than in the UK other earners pay actually more in direct taxes.

Fair way is to review all taxes and design a tax system that works