Faith in the country again!

[wendigo100]

Billy Bragg is a useless dick. He's even trying to help the Labour party re-organise the House of Lords!

I also heard Hazel Blears the other day saying that this country should not be run by people from Eton - because not many people went there.

How many people went to Fettes, or to any school? Silly cow.

The class war is still very much alive in the Labour Party.

[Lucy]

Sorry to burst your bubble Sal, but Billy Bragg has been using communist immagery and went on communist government supported tours of those countries when they existed (eg: East Germany). He has never once apologised for the support he gave to governments that imprisoned, tourtured and killed political opponents, and who ran a system where anyone trying to escape who be shot on sight, and the soldier doing so would be rewarded. (remember the wall?)

Billy Bragg liked to play the idea that both sides were morally equivalent during the cold war, yet, anybody taking the same position in the Eastern block would have been locked up. He is simply another mindless apologist for a brutal system (that we can never really appreciate) which denied the fundatmental right to criticise the government, he is just lucky he was on the right [sic] side of the wall to do what he did.

As for the coal mines, they had been losing a fortune for decades and the unions would demand more and more money making them less competitive, at the same time refusing to allow secret ballots by its members (Until Thatcher forced them to do this). The miners were lead by one of Britains foremost communists, and those miners who wanted to work, needed police protection as did their families, because the kind and sweet unionists would threaten them, all because 'Dad' wanted a job. Most mining in Britain is unaffordable and demand had dropped until relatively recently, blaming Thatcher is like blaming the dentist for removing your teeth when you haven't been to see him for 25 years.

Bragg's Right versus Left politics is obsolete and one dimentional. He seems to think that people on the Left don't believe in rascism (even thought they seem to dislike foreign investment) are not homophobic and are all-round kind, thoughtful good guys. It's not that simple, as you move further along the Left you get people who are more and more authoritarian (people who want the government to solve everything, and think there should be laws for everything). On the Right, it is split between conservative and Libertarian (where individual liberty is paramount). The conservative Right thinks the government has a role in personal morality, but has a 'nationalistic' side also.

Recommended reading: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek.

[_V_]

Sorry to burst your bubble Sal, but Billy Bragg has been using communist immagery and went on communist government supported tours of those countries when they existed (eg: East Germany). He has never once apologised for the support he gave to governments that imprisoned, tourtured and killed political opponents, and who ran a system where anyone trying to escape who be shot on sight, and the soldier doing so would be rewarded. (remember the wall?)

Billy Bragg liked to play the idea that both sides were morally equivalent during the cold war, yet, anybody taking the same position in the Eastern block would have been locked up. He is simply another mindless apologist for a brutal system (that we can never really appreciate) which denied the fundatmental right to criticise the government, he is just lucky he was on the right [sic] side of the wall to do what he did.

As for the coal mines, they had been losing a fortune for decades and the unions would demand more and more money making them less competitive, at the same time refusing to allow secret ballots by its members (Until Thatcher forced them to do this). The miners were lead by one of Britains foremost communists, and those miners who wanted to work, needed police protection as did their families, because the kind and sweet unionists would threaten them, all because 'Dad' wanted a job. Most mining in Britain is unaffordable and demand had dropped until relatively recently, blaming Thatcher is like blaming the dentist for removing your teeth when you haven't been to see him for 25 years.

Bragg's Right versus Left politics is obsolete and one dimentional. He seems to think that people on the Left don't believe in rascism (even thought they seem to dislike foreign investment) are not homophobic and are all-round kind, thoughtful good guys. It's not that simple, as you move further along the Left you get people who are more and more authoritarian (people who want the government to solve everything, and think there should be laws for everything). On the Right, it is split between conservative and Libertarian (where individual liberty is paramount). The conservative Right thinks the government has a role in personal morality, but has a 'nationalistic' side also.

Recommended reading: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek.

Sorry Lucy, you are definately a man. The style of your writing is too similar to some of the regulars here and if people think I'm wrong, stick Lucy's text here http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html

Female Score: 335
Male Score: 724

The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!

[Lucy]

Ah, another online genius !

Darren is my accountant, ask him !

(and hey, whilst ever you carry-on doing crap this like this you don't have to deal with the arguments do you ? and I doubt you could anyway.)


YAWN

[bogeyman]

As for the coal mines, they had been losing a fortune for decades and the unions would demand more and more money making them less competitive, at the same time refusing to allow secret ballots by its members (Until Thatcher forced them to do this). The miners were lead by one of Britains foremost communists, and those miners who wanted to work, needed police protection as did their families, because the kind and sweet unionists would threaten them, all because 'Dad' wanted a job. Most mining in Britain is unaffordable and demand had dropped until relatively recently, blaming Thatcher is like blaming the dentist for removing your teeth when you haven't been to see him for 25 years.

I agree that Scargill was one of the biggest tossers ever to grace the face of God's own earth. However, coal mining was (is) a perfectly profitable enterprise had it been gone about in the right way.

One shining example is Tower Colliery in South Wales. The managers and workforce bought out the colliery from the NCB, and continue to work it very profitably. They kept their community alive.

[vista]

definition please

[quote] Well, I'm sure we have a own little selection of BNP supporters on here like! /quote]


Is a BNP supporter a racist?

Is a racist someone who hates non-whites purely because they are non-white and thinks they should be repatriated / killed etc?

or

Is a racist someone that feels that HMG should put the indigenous population' best interests above those of immigrants

or

Is a racist someone that thinks its wrong to give a house, money and a life to those that turn up and ask for it without demanding they put back into the system?

I genuinely ask because the label racist has been casually applied to anyone that doesn't actively support mass immgration and social security for anyone on the planet that has the wit to turn up and ask, irrespective of the costs to the taxpayer or the countries natural resources.

If its the third definition then I'm proud to be labeled a racist if its the first then I'm not.

[wendigo100]

Hear hear.

I want tight immigration controls so that we do not have a net increase in population. If that is racism, and some say it is, I'd be proud to be called a racist.

But to anyone who uses an ounce of intelligence, it isn't racism at all.

[bogeyman]

[QUOTE=vista]

Well, I'm sure we have a own little selection of BNP supporters on here like! /quote]


Is a BNP supporter a racist?

Is a racist someone who hates non-whites purely because they are non-white and thinks they should be repatriated / killed etc?

or

Is a racist someone that feels that HMG should put the indigenous population' best interests above those of immigrants

or

Is a racist someone that thinks its wrong to give a house, money and a life to those that turn up and ask for it without demanding they put back into the system?

I genuinely ask because the label racist has been casually applied to anyone that doesn't actively support mass immgration and social security for anyone on the planet that has the wit to turn up and ask, irrespective of the costs to the taxpayer or the countries natural resources.

If its the third definition then I'm proud to be labeled a racist if its the first then I'm not.

In my (limited) experience, I find that BNP supporters are mostly racists (i.e. hate people just because of their ethnicity).

Those who follow your third definition, would more likely be UKIP supporters or right-wing-ish Tories.

I'm happy being in the third group.

[scotspine]

Sorry Lucy, you are definately a man. The style of your writing is too similar to some of the regulars here and if people think I'm wrong, stick Lucy's text here http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html

Female Score: 335
Male Score: 724

The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!

i'm assured that this is not the case. why persist with questioning an attribute you would have accepted without hesitation had the same person signed up under the name 'fred'? if the issue is ultimately unknowable and without significant import, why bother?

and, a good post...

[SallyAnne]

Sorry to burst your bubble Sal, but Billy Bragg has been using communist immagery and went on communist government supported tours of those countries when they existed (eg: East Germany). He has never once apologised for the support he gave to governments that imprisoned, tourtured and killed political opponents, and who ran a system where anyone trying to escape who be shot on sight, and the soldier doing so would be rewarded. (remember the wall?)

Billy Bragg liked to play the idea that both sides were morally equivalent during the cold war, yet, anybody taking the same position in the Eastern block would have been locked up. He is simply another mindless apologist for a brutal system (that we can never really appreciate) which denied the fundatmental right to criticise the government, he is just lucky he was on the right [sic] side of the wall to do what he did.

As for the coal mines, they had been losing a fortune for decades and the unions would demand more and more money making them less competitive, at the same time refusing to allow secret ballots by its members (Until Thatcher forced them to do this). The miners were lead by one of Britains foremost communists, and those miners who wanted to work, needed police protection as did their families, because the kind and sweet unionists would threaten them, all because 'Dad' wanted a job. Most mining in Britain is unaffordable and demand had dropped until relatively recently, blaming Thatcher is like blaming the dentist for removing your teeth when you haven't been to see him for 25 years.

Bragg's Right versus Left politics is obsolete and one dimentional. He seems to think that people on the Left don't believe in rascism (even thought they seem to dislike foreign investment) are not homophobic and are all-round kind, thoughtful good guys. It's not that simple, as you move further along the Left you get people who are more and more authoritarian (people who want the government to solve everything, and think there should be laws for everything). On the Right, it is split between conservative and Libertarian (where individual liberty is paramount). The conservative Right thinks the government has a role in personal morality, but has a 'nationalistic' side also.

Recommended reading: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek.

You're not bursting my bubble at all. I've been a fan of the man's music for many years, and everytime I see him he's better than before!

There are many people in the world who genuinely believe in the idealism of communism you know Lucy - its not an evil concept. Its quite a beautiful concept when you get down to the nitty gritty...it just never seems to work.

I didn't mention anything about the minors like, and I cant really be arsed with this argument - I'll save that for another time.

But thanks for your very educational "straight out of a book" post all the same.