November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

[BoredBloke]

I think Bobspud's comment was illustrative.

I think the larger firms in a number of verticals (e.g. fintech, pharma) would go down the option b) route. Not for being altruistic towards contractors of course. But in the rush pre-Brexit to retain quality flexible resources, they'll put more effort into demonstrating that the work on the ground delivered by contractors sits outside IR35. So, proper MOO, no SDC, project=based deliverables in contracts etc.

There's not too much extra work in making this happen - it's what should happen now. Contracts and working practices just need tightening up. And as for the risk of getting an outside decision wrong, I think the larger private sector firms will have more appetite to take this on than the public bodies have done.

I don't share your optimism. Wasn't the move to using limited companies in the 70's caused by agencies possibly getting hit with the tax liabilities for the self employed? Why would any business open itself up to the risk of being hit with the tax and NI back taxes for all their contractors when they can simply say that thy will only recruit on a FTC or inside IR35 basis? They don't care what our tax levels are. As more and more clients offer only inside roles, the problem of recruiting will lessen as we'll all have to work somewhere at some point.

[eek]

I don't share your optimism. Wasn't the move to using limited companies in the 70's caused by agencies possibly getting hit with the tax liabilities for the self employed? Why would any business open itself up to the risk of being hit with the tax and NI back taxes for all their contractors when they can simply say that thy will only recruit on a FTC or inside IR35 basis? They don't care what our tax levels are. As more and more clients offer only inside roles, the problem of recruiting will lessen as we'll all have to work somewhere at some point.

It was the exact opposite agencies were requiring people to be self employed to avoid responsibility for tax

[AtW]

They will do it because option of contracting in EU will be cut short at 11pm on Friday 29 March 2019, there won't be anywhere to go easily anymore after that.

[bobspud]

I think Bobspud's comment was illustrative.

I think the larger firms in a number of verticals (e.g. fintech, pharma) would go down the option b) route. Not for being altruistic towards contractors of course. But in the rush pre-Brexit to retain quality flexible resources, they'll put more effort into demonstrating that the work on the ground delivered by contractors sits outside IR35. So, proper MOO, no SDC, project=based deliverables in contracts etc.

There's not too much extra work in making this happen - it's what should happen now. Contracts and working practices just need tightening up. And as for the risk of getting an outside decision wrong, I think the larger private sector firms will have more appetite to take this on than the public bodies have done.

This is exactly the point I was making.

If you add Uber’s latest defeat to the mix there won’t be a business in the U.K. that would choose put a legitimate contractor inside ir35. Only the civil service are that stupid. But I’m sure it won’t take long for their errors to dawn on them

[TheFaQQer]

Yep. Same, potted response (though perhaps a bit more misguidedly pointed from Damian Hinds) from mine two years ago.

TBH, I don't think writing to MP's is the way to tackle this at all, they simply do not grasp the nuances.

When you get the standard response, the follow up is to say thank you for their reply but you would like them to raise your concerns directly with the Chancellor.

They then pass that onto HMT who send the potted reply, but at least it means that Treasury have to do something to respond.

[cojak]

Seems it's coming...but somehow don't see any urgency from firms on this as they will have to bear extra costs..transferring contractors to ftc, paying off agents, managing disruption...

Sigh...

My guess is that this is going to happen irrespective of any letter writing and then rolled back 1 -2 years after implementation due to the chaos brought into the private sector.

Those contractors who can survive those months will be the ones best placed to benefit from the roll-back.

[mudskipper]

When you get the standard response, the follow up is to say thank you for their reply but you would like them to raise your concerns directly with the Chancellor.

They then pass that onto HMT who send the potted reply, but at least it means that Treasury have to do something to respond.

My representations have been conveyed to the Chief Exec of HMRC - not sure how I feel about that!

[jamesbrown]

My representations have been conveyed to the Chief Exec of HMRC - not sure how I feel about that!

Cautiously apprehensive?

[mudskipper]

Cautiously apprehensive?

Come and try it you ****ers! (But I have had a bottle of wine)

[SueEllen]

Rant written to Tory MP.

Added in a bit towards the end about not being worth it to vote Tory due to their pretence of being pro-business and pro-flexible workforce. I didn't actually vote for the guy but he has a small majority so needed to drum it in that he could lose his seat if this goes through.

I've written to him before when they were removing expenses from the public sector, and he responds quickly.