Now I know why some of you are sexist...

[mudskipper]

Thank you for confirming that - that is what I want, from my wife - 20 years into the relationship. Unfortunately I let myself slide into a comfortable, computer gaming, pr0n watching, dad bod guy, asking for permission and getting hen pecked.

I'm just changing myself instead of trying to get her to change. Not trying to be something I'm not but rather change back to what I was before I changed into gaming/pr0n/bald middle aged beer belly guy. That's all gone now (apart form the middle aged bit).

I'm standing my ground instead of being non-confrontational and passive aggressive which has cut down arguing and hen pecking massively - which is good for both of us and we're both happier for it.

I suppose that because I've given this topic a lot of attention recently my neural pathways are honed into any man/masculinity shaming that I see which I take issue with as I see that as getting me into the 'nice guy' state I'm so avidly rejecting now. I'm sure it will all normalise soon.

I'm glad you're both happy and it's working for you. But it does feel as if you've bought the whole "solution" hook line and sinker, and applied a formulaic approach. It's then very easy to find lots of examples, anecdotes and evidence that back up and justify your new theories, and there's then a danger that they become more ingrained and more extreme. Try looking for the stuff that challenges them too. For example, do you not find the word "hen pecked" problematic?

Have a read of this

Spitting out the Red Pill: Former misogynists reveal how they were radicalised online

then maybe check out the book that's recommended for a more balanced view? What's to lose?

[greenlake]

I bought that for my wife once. I was out of hospital in 2 weeks....

Which one?

This one....

[BrilloPad]

I'm glad you're both happy and it's working for you. But it does feel as if you've bought the whole "solution" hook line and sinker, and applied a formulaic approach. It's then very easy to find lots of examples, anecdotes and evidence that back up and justify your new theories, and there's then a danger that they become more ingrained and more extreme. Try looking for the stuff that challenges them too. For example, do you not find the word "hen pecked" problematic?

Have a read of this

Spitting out the Red Pill: Former misogynists reveal how they were radicalised online

then maybe check out the book that's recommended for a more balanced view? What's to lose?

I agree with all of that, and the books look very good.

However my issue is with how marriage changes women. And in particular how the sexist divorce laws mean marriage is a very bad deal for men : though that is not my only issue with marriage.

Remember that by favouring women in the home the family courts are saying that women should not be working....

[Jog On]

I'm glad you're both happy and it's working for you. But it does feel as if you've bought the whole "solution" hook line and sinker, and applied a formulaic approach. It's then very easy to find lots of examples, anecdotes and evidence that back up and justify your new theories, and there's then a danger that they become more ingrained and more extreme. Try looking for the stuff that challenges them too. For example, do you not find the word "hen pecked" problematic?

Have a read of this

Spitting out the Red Pill: Former misogynists reveal how they were radicalised online

then maybe check out the book that's recommended for a more balanced view? What's to lose?

That book is apparently 'mandatory reading' on the red pill and married red pill subreddits. I haven't got round to it as it's more seduction/pick up artist stuff which is not really why I'm there. But it sounds like it has a healthy mutual respect for women much like 'no more mr nice guy' the way of the superior man' and 'MSSLP' - all part of the recommended reading list.

I do agree however that there are elements of the red pill movement that I am not comfortable with like dark triad and some of the more hardcore stuff. I found it from doing nofap (giving up pr0n) and a lot of it resonates with me. It's a shame that so much of it is younger guys talking about pick up strategies and not as much self improvement. What's in the recommended books and a lot of what is discussed on the subreddits are quite far apart a lot of the time.

That being said it becomes relevant when I see man shaming articles like the one that started this thread and the one you linked - although it's got some truth in it it's written by a woman and not very objectively. There are better counter red pill sources like this one and interesting takes on it like a film made by a former feminist which has caused massive uproar.

There seems to be quite a broad spectrum in the red pill ranging from men's rights to outright Machiavellian patriarchy. A lot of it dominated by young guys talking about how to get laid and bragging about their 'field reports'.

I'm taking what I need from it to change myself to meet my needs and it's working. It just irks me when I see man shaming articles on my facebook feed (they're becoming less and less as I unfollow the pages that publish them) and it gives ammunition to the red pill community.

I just want more action in the bedroom - simple as...

*edit* - and less nagging/arguing outside the bedroom!

[SueEllen]

I agree with all of that, and the books look very good.

However my issue is with how marriage changes women. And in particular how the sexist divorce laws mean marriage is a very bad deal for men : though that is not my only issue with marriage.

Remember that by favouring women in the home the family courts are saying that women should not be working....

While you don't know any high earning women I do. Those who them who have got divorced have found out that the court favours their much lower earning ex-husband.

Point is marry someone in the same income bracket as yourself otherwise expect the courts to decide your joint marital assets are exactly that - joint. If you have children and aren't doing joined parenting from the beginning, as you decide to be the main bread-winner then expect to be screwed over.

Btw Women actually don't publicise the fact they aren't the parent the kid lives with as they are seen by society as bad mothers.

[mudskipper]

While you don't know any high earning women I do. Those who them who have got divorced have found out that the court favours their much lower earning ex-husband.

Point is marry someone in the same income bracket as yourself otherwise expect the courts to decide your joint marital assets are exactly that - joint. If you have children and aren't doing joined parenting from the beginning, as you decide to be the main bread-winner then expect to be screwed over.

Btw Women actually don't publicise the fact they aren't the parent the kid lives with as they are seen by society as bad mothers.

I've got a friend (male) who got custody of the kids, even though his wife was 'stay at home'. So maybe things are changing slowly. But I do think Brillo is right in that the default position will often be to give the kids to the mother, and the father is going to have to work hard to make his case.

[SueEllen]

@jogon the thread was started as a joke. I take studies like this with a large pinch of salt due to their research methods, if you find them, always being dubious e.g. only using college students.

Btw I read another interesting story today I will start a thread about it.

[mudskipper]

@jogon the thread was started as a joke. I take studies like this with a large pinch of salt due to their research methods, if you find them, always being dubious e.g. only using college students.

Btw I read another interesting story today I will start a thread about it.

Indeed - it was in the DM - I haven't looked at their homepage, but I'll be surprised if there aren't at least half a dozen articles objectifying women. (goes off to count)

[Jog On]

Indeed - it was in the DM - I haven't looked at their homepage, but I'll be surprised if there aren't at least half a dozen articles objectifying women. (goes of to count)

The whole right side of the DM page is one big pot noodle fest that I can't look at unless I want to fall off the nofap wagon... (I am in a delicate place at the moment - hopefully it will pass...)

[mudskipper]

The whole right side of the DM page is one big pot noodle fest that I can't look at unless I want to fall off the nofap wagon... (I am in a delicate place at the moment - hopefully it will pass...)

I had to google nofap - I have to ask - why? Masturbation is normal and healthy (and I'm sure there was a DM article recently claiming it prevents cancer!)