Army fury as chief in Afghanistan is told he won't get vital armour

[Ardesco]

The national service won't help, in fact quiet opposite - I don't like the idea of yobs getting military training, or worse actual military experience of urban warware.

I disagree, the initial training phase will force them to knuckle down, learn to take orders and respect authority. If they can't learn to do these three things they won't be given any "Urban Warfare" training. All the idoits that think that they are hard and big men are the ones that will be crying in a corner after the first week and then 2 weeks later they will be desperatly doing thier best to get a small word of praise from the sergant in command of thier section.

Military training is excellent for discipline and teaching you that you aren't the biggest baddest mofo to have ever lived.

[AtW]

All the best armies in the world have no conscription - this method is only acceptable during major war, and by that I mean fighting on the streets here in the UK.

Mofos and yobs should be in jail, not in the army - you either trust people to wield a firearm or you don't, and I certainly don't want yobs to be there: well, maybe special batallions of unarmed yobs going ahead of everyone to storm enemy strongholds, this way it might be okay.

[Ardesco]

All the best armies in the world have no conscription - this method is only acceptable during major war, and by that I mean fighting on the streets here in the UK.

Mofos and yobs should be in jail, not in the army - you either trust people to wield a firearm or you don't, and I certainly don't want yobs to be there: well, maybe special batallions of unarmed yobs going ahead of everyone to storm enemy strongholds, this way it might be okay.

Hmm what about the Israel Army? One of the most highly trained armies in the world with lots of battle experiance. Everybody in Israel has to do national service.

Mofos and Yobs who are taught some discipline and shown how to work hard and live properly stop being mofos and yobs (I love you use of mofos btw AtW). The point is training like this would be of benefit to us and them. Not to mention what do you think the role of the average foot soldeir is??? I'll give you a clue...

Right lads see that bunker on the far side of that open field with a GPMG in it?? I want you to pepperpot accros that field screaming as loud as you can and pop a grenade over the top when you get there. Don't worry you'll all be fine... 1 - 2 - 3 - GO!!!

[Mailman]

Mofos and yobs should be in jail, not in the army

Maybe the mofos and yobs are mofos and yobs simply because they have no direction in life.

After all, the purpose of drill is to produce a soldier who is proud, alert and obedient and forms the basis of team work!

Mailman

[AtW]

Hmm what about the Israel Army? One of the most highly trained armies in the world with lots of battle experiance. Everybody in Israel has to do national service.

Israel is at war, and has been for the last few decades - they don't have a choice because war that happens there is right at their borders and often inside them.

I also think their army is highly overrated - they are the "best" when the enemy has got no effective anti-tank and/or anti-aircraft weapons, and as soon as Hezbollah got more or less modern anti-tank gear they stopped Israel pretty much in place.

I want people who join the army to be honourable from start - or at least aspire to that: mofos, yobs, pikey and hoodie scum belong to jail or (during war) ahead of the attacking army to reduce amount of ammo available to the enemy. Either that or they can be xoggoth's neighbours...

[Ardesco]

Israel is at war, and has been for the last few decades - they don't have a choice because war that happens there is right at their borders and often inside them.

I also think their army is highly overrated - they are the "best" when the enemy has got no effective anti-tank and/or anti-aircraft weapons, and as soon as Hezbollah got more or less modern anti-tank gear they stopped Israel pretty much in place.

I want people who join the army to be honourable from start - or at least aspire to that: mofos, yobs, pikey and hoodie scum belong to jail or (during war) ahead of the attacking army to reduce amount of ammo available to the enemy. Either that or they can be xoggoth's neighbours...

I think you over estimate what Hezbollah acheived. They held up fairly well, but they didn't inflict significant casualties on the Israelian army and if Israel had more time before UN sanctions kicked in and the media hype shot through the roof I have no doubt they would have destroyed most of Hezbollah (and probably levelled an even larger section if Lebanon in the process).

I would love to see you defeat an entrenched army with decent tactics, a good supply train and a network of underground bunkers in under a month AtW.... Either way the Israeli army is renowned throughout the world as being a highly efficient battle hardened army that you don't really want to come across in the field which instantly disproves your intial argument against conscrition.

You don't just want honerable and sensible people to join the army AtW, you want a load of thick feckers who will jump when you say jump and run into certain death when you say run. Yobs are perfect ground soldiers. Once trained they do as they are told, they aren't clever enough to realise that some orders are stupid and will result in certain death, and nobody realy cares if a few yobs loose thier lives on the battlefield.

[AtW]

I think you over estimate what Hezbollah acheived. They held up fairly well, but they didn't inflict significant casualties on the Israelian army

Hezbolla knocked out over 50 tanks - tanks with the best defence in the world by the way, this is very significant as these tanks did not even enter cities to have real right - this approach has been the backbone of Israeli strategy and this is why in this war they failed to win, which under the circumstances is a loss.

If Hezbollah had effective anti-aircraft defence, then Israel would have lost the only major card they have.

National service is not an answer - even though I think some Territorial Army like service would be handy to have population ready to fight in case of serious war, but TA units should not be send to Iraq, which I believe did happen more than once.

[Ardesco]

National service is not an answer - even though I think some Territorial Army like service would be handy to have population ready to fight in case of serious war, but TA units should not be send to Iraq, which I believe did happen more than once.

It is still happening now, I have 3 freinds in the TA who have been sent out to Iraq so far and not all were best pleased about it. In this country you don't get compensation if you are taking a cut in wages. One of my freinds had to do a 6 month stint in Iraq earning half of what he normally earns which meant when he got back half of his saving had been eaten up to pay the mortgage back home while he was fighting for his country....

Half of the army is TA nowdays, it is the labour governments way of making out the army is not woefully understaffed...

Oh and you're wrong, national service is the answer. Maybe not in Russia, but definetly over here. It would get the kids of the streets and teach them to be contributing members to our society!!!

[AtW]

The fact that TA is send to Iraq is just plain wrong - maybe if TA people volunteered to go then okay, but otherwise it is plainly wrong - it certainly put people off TA in the first place and probably tainted it for a long time.

It sure shows lack of regular infantry units not just here but also in the USA - and amazing how Brown stuff cuts number of units, merges them etc just to cut costs, and then give hundreds of millions of pounds to reconstruction that will certainly be wasted anyway!

I would not have mind do national service in the UK army, but I dodged (legally) Russian draft because I ain't dieing for the scum in Kremlin. Not sure I want to die for Blair either though.

[SallyAnne]

It's not an SA80 anymore, it is now called a "5.56 Rifle"

HTH

Ardesco - are you Gareth from The Office?