Brexiteers lose it over LePen

[WordIsBond]

It is exquisite how the global élite has persuaded a section on impoverished people to vote against their own economic self interest.

Nothing unusual there, the Labour Party has been doing it for decades.

[northernladyuk]

Nothing unusual there, the Labour Party has been doing it for decades.

I see what you did there.

[chopper]

Stronger showing than Brexit then, which only got the backing of 37.4% of the UK electorate.

That doesn't mean 62.6% wanted to remain. It means 37.4% of the electorate wanted to leave, a slightly smaller proportion wanted to remain (34.7%) and 27.9% couldn't be arsed to vote so have no say.

So even under the FPTP process you suggest (i.e leave, remain, abstain), leave won. Abstention doesn't mean "the status quo, please".

But what it does show is that more people wanted to leave the EU than were prepared to actually vote for UKIP.

Ironically, I suspect the people voting UKIP were those most angry at non-EU immigration, illegal or otherwise, something which isn't even a thing in the "Leaving the EU" debate.

And now we have a scenario where die-hard labour voters are voting Tory to get Brexit, and remainers are voting Tory despite Brexit. And UKIP voters are returning to Tory. And Scotland is also voting Tory. Will everyone stop voting Tory?

The #anyonebutcorbyn hashtag on twitter tells the story which is fundamentally the media shaping public opinion of Corbyn. Most people dislike Corbyn I suspect because the papers tell them to.

Jeremy Corbyn is a 'scruffy Worzel Gummidge', so instead I am going to vote to screw over our human rights

Corbyn is out of touch, so I want my kids' to have class sizes of 40 and have a supply teacher 4 days a week

Corbyn hasn't said he was a strong leader, so just **** up my NHS

Jeremy Corbyn didn't break his back to bow at the Cenotaph, so I'm going to ensure my kids will never own their own home

Corbyn didn't sing the national anthem once so I'm voting to turn this country into a tax haven for the rich

He's obviously never spent a grand on a pair of trousers so I'm voting to give higher tax relief to billionaires

I'm not pro-Corbyn, incidentally. But I do wonder if my own opinion is shaped by the media telling me his is useless and May is "strong and stable". I would prefer Labour to return more to the centre. There are people talking of liking Labour policies, but wouldn't vote for Corbyn. Errr - Labour policies are created by Corbyn, right?

[PurpleGorilla]

That doesn't mean 62.6% wanted to remain. It means 37.4% of the electorate wanted to leave, a slightly smaller proportion wanted to remain (34.7%) and 27.9% couldn't be arsed to vote so have no say.

So even under the FPTP process you suggest (i.e leave, remain, abstain), leave won. Abstention doesn't mean "the status quo, please".

But what it does show is that more people wanted to leave the EU than were prepared to actually vote for UKIP.

Ironically, I suspect the people voting UKIP were those most angry at non-EU immigration, illegal or otherwise, something which isn't even a thing in the "Leaving the EU" debate.

And now we have a scenario where die-hard labour voters are voting Tory to get Brexit, and remainers are voting Tory despite Brexit. And UKIP voters are returning to Tory. And Scotland is also voting Tory. Will everyone stop voting Tory?

The #anyonebutcorbyn hashtag on twitter tells the story which is fundamentally the media shaping public opinion of Corbyn. Most people dislike Corbyn I suspect because the papers tell them to.







I'm not pro-Corbyn, incidentally. But I do wonder if my own opinion is shaped by the media telling me his is useless and May is "strong and stable". I would prefer Labour to return more to the centre. There are people talking of liking Labour policies, but wouldn't vote for Corbyn. Errr - Labour policies are created by Corbyn, right?

I had a lot of hope for Corbyn.

But he has been useless.

Part of this is due to his nature (not a leader), but also due to the manipulation by his party trying to mould him into something he is not.

He should have campaigned to leave, and make his left wing agenda front and centre. Some really radical stuff is needed.

[northernladyuk]

I'll re-word it. Is Brexit for the elite, or is the EU for the elite, or are both?

A good question. They are both for the élite. Brexit is for the smash working conditions Randian dystopia wing. The EU is for the paternalistic post-war settlement bureaucratic wing.

[BlasterBates]

At the end of the day there will always be an elite. So when there is a revolution to get rid of the elite it will simply replace it with a new elite.

It's pointless to rail against the elite. The so called champions against the elite are themselves as much part of the elite as the elite they rail against.

[northernladyuk]

At the end of the day there will always be an elite. So when there is a revolution to get rid of the elite it will simply replace it with a new elite.

It's pointless to rail against the elite. The so called champions against the elite are themselves as much part of the elite as the elite they rail against.

Are you saying Jacob Rees Mogg is in fact part of the Establishment?

[scooterscot]

The jingoistic kippers are in a fair flutter now

[VectraMan]

That doesn't mean 62.6% wanted to remain. It means 37.4% of the electorate wanted to leave, a slightly smaller proportion wanted to remain (34.7%) and 27.9% couldn't be arsed to vote so have no say.

If you CBA'd to vote you're obviously happy with how things are. Want change, well then you need to turn up.

But anyway, no point arguing about the referendum process now. The only annoying thing is when Brexiteer politicians (which is basically all of them) claim to be speaking for the people when they are in fact actively ignoring the majority of the people who didn't vote for it. Even if May gets a huge landslide it's still unlikely she'll get an actual majority of the votes, but will claim to have the backing of the people to do whatever the hell she wants.

And now we have a scenario where die-hard labour voters are voting Tory to get Brexit, and remainers are voting Tory despite Brexit. And UKIP voters are returning to Tory. And Scotland is also voting Tory. Will everyone stop voting Tory?

Yep. UK is doomed. Far from being a triumph of democracy, the referendum has effectively destroyed democracy. Only good option left is to leave.

[NickFitz]

It's been said before, but if anyone doesn't feel strong enough to either post their vote or get their a5se down to the polling station then they've no reason to moan.

That doesn't mean 62.6% wanted to remain. It means 37.4% of the electorate wanted to leave, a slightly smaller proportion wanted to remain (34.7%) and 27.9% couldn't be arsed to vote so have no say.

So even under the FPTP process you suggest (i.e leave, remain, abstain), leave won. Abstention doesn't mean "the status quo, please".

Please feel free to address these remarks to the post by Yorkie62 to which I was replying, as that's where the argument was actually made/the process suggested:

The problem with statistic and percentages is that unless presented fully they can lie. From what I gathered from the news was that 66% of valid votes cast of those that voted ( only 75% of those eligible to vote) voted for macron. Another 12% of ballot papers were spoilt. Which means that 37% of the French voting population were not convinced by either individual. That means that Macron only has the backing of 49.5% of the French population.

I merely mentioned a further point that would follow if such an analysis were to be broadly applied