We told you so!

[PurpleGorilla]

And how is it going to be resolved?

Hang on a second.

TM was in Europe 6 months ago trying to get a bilateral agreement on citizens status, and Merkel et al told her to fook off!

[northernladyuk]

Hang on a second.

TM was in Europe 6 months ago trying to get a bilateral agreement on citizens status, and Merkel et al told her to fook off!

Article 50 had not been triggered.

[PurpleGorilla]

Article 50 had not been triggered.

So fooking what.

We tried to get it resolved swiftly, the EU said no, and now is DEMANDING it be sorted ASAP.

Seriously!

[darmstadt]

Article 50 had not been triggered.

So fooking what.

We tried to get it resolved swiftly, the EU said no, and now is DEMANDING it be sorted ASAP.

Seriously!

Article 50 has now been triggered therefore surely they're acting in everyone's best interests...

[PurpleGorilla]

Article 50 has now been triggered therefore surely they're acting in everyone's best interests...

I'll give them credit, they have stuck three big hurdles to get past before the discussion on an FTA. Slowly the clock runs down making our position (in their eyes) weaker.

I think Varoufakis is right, we should join the EEA on a temporary basis, whilst working on a longer term FTA.

[squarepeg]

You should have more faith.

Firstly nobody of any significance has said that the UK would be expelling EU nationals. The only scare-mongering is coming from the bitter remain side.

Of course it's unsettling. Change is.

Secondly the PM clearly made an offer to the EU prior to A50 being triggered on the subject of EU nationals. This was politely declined by the EU as they didn't want to start any formal talks prior to A50.

Thirdly. The GE isn't pointless and it won't waste any negotiation time. If May gets a bigger majority then the agreed deal is less likely to be torpedoed by disgruntled hard-Brexiters OR die-hard remainers at the last minute. It also pushes the next UK GE to 2022 - which stops the deal being weaponised in the would-have-been 2020 GE.

The bulk of all these negotiations are done by civil servants in the UK and EU. It's not like Davis, May, Junker, Tusk & Merkel are actually going to sit down and do it. The vast majority of the the work is carried out by teams of people who are in all likelihood beavering away to get to a common position. The politicians just fly in at the end for the signing and photo-op.


And finally. I know it is fashionable to portray all politicians as idiots. And undoubtedly some are. But they are just the "frontmen". There is a whole army of advisors, experts, strategists, lawyers who will work hard to get the right result for both sides.

My advice. Ignore the news for the next 18 months. It's just there to sell newspapers by pandering to their readers fears and prejudices by reporting what their readers already believe.

Yes, I do remember that the UK government offered to discuss the rights of the EU nationals with the EU. I also remember what Mrs Rudd said during the Conservative party conference last year. She is a person of significance. What she says and does is of significance and is closely followed by the EU nationals in the UK. No, neither Mrs May nor Mrs Rudd have stated that EU nationals will be expelled. Mrs Rudd merely wanted to make it compulsory for businesses to report how many foreigners they employ. She also mentioned that she has many other related ideas. Should we ignore what someone in charge of the Home Office says?

Your claim that the GE will not waste any negotiation time is not confirmed by the recent announcement that the negotiations will start after the June 8 elections. There are no negotiations going on right now, and none will start until the next UK government forms, because this government is too busy with the GE. So far, the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) has produced an org chart. They will do nothing until there is a new Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. That will take time, even if the current Secretary keeps his job.

Article 50 was triggered on March 29 2017. The negotiations won't start until the end of June 2017 at the earliest. That's a quarter of a year up a stray dog's ass. That's worrying, because the UK government keeps repeating that "There will be no change to the rights and status of EU nationals living in the UK while the UK remains in the EU." That's less than two years away and the British politicians are happy to piss the time away.

It's telling that there are no leaked documents related to Brexit. There is a reason for that... nobody has produced anything beyond the Great Repeal Bill. The GE looks like a useful distraction from the fact that there is no plan for Brexit and the government is not ready to start negotiations.

Coming back to that offer to discuss the status of the EU nationals in the UK... nobody has leaked a scrap of paper or said anything over the drinks about the details of that offer. Because there was none. The behaviour of the British politicians suggests that the EU will have to force them to understand that people are not cattle.

[tomtomagain]

In the Brexit *****?

No, in the ability of general ability of individuals in liberal democracies to come to a reasonable accommodation for both parties.

[northernladyuk]

I'll give them credit, they have stuck three big hurdles to get past before the discussion on an FTA. Slowly the clock runs down making our position (in their eyes) weaker.

I think Varoufakis is right, we should join the EEA on a temporary basis, whilst working on a longer term FTA.

How long will it take to join the EEA? Who needs to agree?

[tomtomagain]

It's telling that there are no leaked documents related to Brexit. There is a reason for that... nobody has produced anything beyond the Great Repeal Bill. The GE looks like a useful distraction from the fact that there is no plan for Brexit and the government is not ready to start negotiations.

Coming back to that offer to discuss the status of the EU nationals in the UK... nobody has leaked a scrap of paper or said anything over the drinks about the details of that offer. Because there was none. The behaviour of the British politicians suggests that the EU will have to force them to understand that people are not cattle.

You and I ( and everyone else) are looking in from the outside. And we do not know what is going on. But it is a massive and flawed assumption to think nothing is going on.

The reason there are no leaks? Well here's a radical thought. The UK civil service and government are actually pretty good at keeping things quiet when they need to.

Here's the text of the UK letter to the EU, triggering A50 and setting out the high level government objectives.

And here is the letter from the EU setting out it's high-level negotiating position.


If you read them both, what is striking is not how far apart they are, but how similar the positions are.

Those are the two official documents. Everything else you read is journalistic hype and political spin from both sides.

[BrilloPad]

Article 50 has now been triggered therefore surely they're acting in everyone's best interests...

Do you seriously believe that?

They are trying to drive the agenda. The whole objective is not to get the best deal for the EU. It is purely to punish the UK.