Where are all the hardcore contractors

[MrMarkyMark]

Where are all the hardcore contractors

Banned, obviously

[sasguru]

What exactly do you think a "coder" does? You think they "codez" 8 hours straight all day? So, if you are hiring a coder (wtf is a coder) and they are typing 8 hours a day I can only imagine they are the dregs, given exact instructions on what to type 8 hours a day. That is not a software developer in my book.

This is why people like you should not be anywhere near hiring a software developer.

Spot on.
It's funny how mediocrities give themselves away with their ignorance time after time.

[ContractorHardman]

Hands down, the best thread. I have just watched a lot of contractors believe this guy.

Shame on you all

He is clearly a troll!

[MrMarkyMark]

Hands down, the best thread. I have just watched a lot of contractors believe this guy.

Shame on you all

He is clearly a troll!

Errrmmmm....really?

I, for one, was trying to wind him up, didn't believe him for one second

[NotAllThere]

Maybe because being a jack of all trades but master of none is not actually that valuable in todays market?
...

Definition of a project manager, isn't it?

[oracleslave]

Definition of a project manager, isn't it?

Funny, last time I checked, the markets valuation of project + programme managers was far higher than that for code monkeys

[woohoo]

Funny, last time I checked, the markets valuation of project + programme managers was far higher than that for code monkeys

A good project manager is worth their weight in gold. Does not mean they know anything about software development or how to hire a developer.

I've only met a couple of good project managers.

[sasguru]

Funny, last time I checked, the markets valuation of project + programme managers was far higher than that for code monkeys

Perhaps, but the market valuation of hybrid PM/highly skilled techie is stratospheric.
Also depends completely on the specialisation.
Mathematically competent data people are in short supply and hence high day rates.

[original PM]

What exactly do you think a "coder" does? You think they "codez" 8 hours straight all day? So, if you are hiring a coder (wtf is a coder) and they are typing 8 hours a day I can only imagine they are the dregs, given exact instructions on what to type 8 hours a day. That is not a software developer in my book.

This is why people like you should not be anywhere near hiring a software developer.

Interesting point so you prefer your coders to spend 6 hours a day pondering what to do and delivering nothing?

So when I said code 8 hours a day I mean review the requirement/story etc and then interestingly enough in our waterfall team the programmer (is that better) would construct a technical document saying how they are going to meet the requirement, get that passed and reviewed and then they would write the code.

In the agile team the programmer would write the code and ensure it meets the acceptance criteria.

So to give an analogy for the bricklayer

Do you want your bricklayer to spend half his team writing numbers on the bricks to tell you what order he is going to use them in building the wall - or do you just want him to build the wall?

Just to put that into perspective - the current BBC and youguv websites were written by the Agile team we currently work with using the agile method I mentioned above

I have over 20 years experience of doing this and have meet all sorts of people who 'write code' some spend a lot of time telling you what they are going to do and how they are going to do it and trying to find 'holes' in the requirements and some just get it done.

If your upstream (requirements/acceptance criteria) and downstream (testing criteria) are in place then the bit in the middle - e.g writing the code to the agreed spec does not require someone to spend 8 hours thinking about it.

We have gone through a huge amount of contractors who come in 'to write code' and spend most the day trying to find reasons not to do any work.

Remember nowadays coding is throw away - knock something up test it , break it down ,build it up, test it, rinse and repeat!

[woohoo]

Interesting point so you prefer your coders to spend 6 hours a day pondering what to do and delivering nothing?

So when I said code 8 hours a day I mean review the requirement/story etc and then interestingly enough in our waterfall team the programmer (is that better) would construct a technical document saying how they are going to meet the requirement, get that passed and reviewed and then they would write the code.

In the agile team the programmer would write the code and ensure it meets the acceptance criteria.

So to give an analogy for the bricklayer

Do you want your bricklayer to spend half his team writing numbers on the bricks to tell you what order he is going to use them in building the wall - or do you just want him to build the wall?

Just to put that into perspective - the current BBC and youguv websites were written by the Agile team we currently work with using the agile method I mentioned above

I have over 20 years experience of doing this and have meet all sorts of people who 'write code' some spend a lot of time telling you what they are going to do and how they are going to do it and trying to find 'holes' in the requirements and some just get it done.

If your upstream (requirements/acceptance criteria) and downstream (testing criteria) are in place then the bit in the middle - e.g writing the code to the agreed spec does not require someone to spend 8 hours thinking about it.

We have gone through a huge amount of contractors who come in 'to write code' and spend most the day trying to find reasons not to do any work.

Remember nowadays coding is throw away - knock something up test it , break it down ,build it up, test it, rinse and repeat!

FFS upstream, downstream, throw away code - you talk some crap.