Scotland after Brexit - 4 threads into one

[scooterscot]

The question on the ballot paper was do you want the UK to remain in the UK. And the majority of people in Scotland said they did.
This is a completely different question as to: "If Scotland was independent of the UK, would you want that independent Scotland to be in the EU?"
Yes there is a good chance the answer (for Scottish voters) is Yes, but it might not be, and falls far short, in my opinion, as a mandate for a new referendum.

In any case, the vote was for the UK as a whole. If you start cherry picking clusters of votes you start getting into absurdities - For example I believe the Orkney islands in Scotland voted to remain. Shouldn't they be given an independence referendum? And what about the Isle of Wight in England - independence for them? (OK they voted to leave I think).

Don't be absurd. Westminster screamed their 'better together' message means being part of the EU. Two years later they rescind after Scots voted the way they wanted.

We were robbed.

[Old Greg]

It is true NI & Scotland obviously strongly want to be in the EU so over the next few months we should address
that. That doesn't necessarily mean wasting more money on a new referendum you had one recently.

You are being silly now. Circumstances have obviously changed. It can easily be settled by a referendum.

[minestrone]

Scotland subsidies the rest of the UK, do your research

This is the biggest lie that is told as fact. In fact Joanna Cherry was on the TV debate the other night claiming that Scotland deficit is 7 billion, it is actually 14.9 billion. That is seriously poor for an MP.

Scotland has not made a surplus since 1989 ( that is including the 90% of the UK's oil which is regarded as Scotland share ) so it is no position to claim it subsidises anything. The SNP like to use "Scotland puts in more than it takes out" meaning have less of a deficit than the rest of the UK which they know gets conflated to subsidises but that is not true either.

There is some slight truth though, in 2008 the UK suffered much more seriously than Scotland, as a consequence Scotland did outperform the UK in terms of deficit. In the run up to the referendum the SNP said "over the last 5 years Scotland has outperformed the UK" which was only true because of 2008, outwith that and maybe one other year in 40 Scotland has not outperformed the UK.

There is an excellent analysis of Scotland's economy and the claims made to further independence, it is entirely based on Scottish and UK government figures.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9i...w?pref=2&pli=1

It does not make for good reading.

[minestrone]

Give it a few weeks, Merkel's storm troopers will be bitch slapping Greek politicians about the parliament over a new bailout while outside the citizens of Athens will be chucking petrol bombs at the police after a day queueing at ATMs.

The idea won't last much longer than that.

[Flashman]

Albania,
the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia,
Montenegro,
Serbia
Turkey

All good to join the EU at some point in the future.

Scotland ? The look of horror on the EU Commissions faces.

[bobspud]

Don't be absurd. Westminster screamed their 'better together' message means being part of the EU. Two years later they rescind after Scots voted the way they wanted.

We were robbed.

To be fair they didn't do it on purpose. They just totally underestimated the willingness of over half the UK to say:To hell with this I'm done.

More interesting is the question: would Scotland even still be part of the U.K. If the English were also asked if we wanted to let them stay

[scooterscot]

Maybe that will work. However there would need to be full border controls between Scotland and England and passports for everyone crossing to be shown at all times.

That's fine but you'll have to pay for it. What do we care?

[scooterscot]

The obvious problem they will face is that Scotland doesn't have a place in the EU; The United Kingdom does.

Still, if it makes them happy....

Don't play chess if you can't see 3 or 4 moves ahead.

Steve Peers, professor of law at the University of Essex, has written: “It may be that the remaining EU could have more political will to welcome Scotland as an EU member than it might have had in 2014, in the interests of stemming any perception that the EU is falling apart.”

[TestMangler]

This is the biggest lie that is told as fact. In fact Joanna Cherry was on the TV debate the other night claiming that Scotland deficit is 7 billion, it is actually 14.9 billion. That is seriously poor for an MP.

Scotland has not made a surplus since 1989 ( that is including the 90% of the UK's oil which is regarded as Scotland share ) so it is no position to claim it subsidises anything. The SNP like to use "Scotland puts in more than it takes out" meaning have less of a deficit than the rest of the UK which they know gets conflated to subsidises but that is not true either.

There is some slight truth though, in 2008 the UK suffered much more seriously than Scotland, as a consequence Scotland did outperform the UK in terms of deficit. In the run up to the referendum the SNP said "over the last 5 years Scotland has outperformed the UK" which was only true because of 2008, outwith that and maybe one other year in 40 Scotland has not outperformed the UK.

There is an excellent analysis of Scotland's economy and the claims made to further independence, it is entirely based on Scottish and UK government figures.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9i...w?pref=2&pli=1

It does not make for good reading.

I've asked you this before, and you dodged the question and said 'GERS tells you what Scotland takes in and spends'. if you want to research it further, I'll give you a starter for ten, but I expect you're so entrenched in your opinion that you wont bother.

Example 1. Corporation Tax. The GERS figures contain a sample of 600 UK companies of various sizes, extrapolated and then attributed as 10% to Scotland. They do not and never have indicate the amount of CT raised in Scotland.

Example 2. Infrastructure costs. GERS figures estimate 10% of UK infrastructure costs as being attributed to Scotland. That includes things like upkeep of the London underground and the South East Rail network.

it is an absolute fact that the income and expenditure from Scotland cannot be quantified. only estimated. GERS were introduced by the Tory inspired Scotland Office under Ian Lang. They are a 'best guess'. Not actual figures.

I'm sure you'll see fit to ignore all that

[minestrone]

Gers figures for corporation tax come from HRMC, I am happy with the mechanisms they use to disaggregate, to claim Scottish government figures are anti Scottish government propaganda is tin foil hat time. I can't counter madness.

On corporation tax we have to remember that Scotland had the lowest level of companies per head of population in the UK, which is pretty poor as we are always screaming about how industrious and innovative we are, also that includes Northern Ireland which is a complete economic basket case.

Anyway, I'm off to the pub to watch the football.