Was: New forum posting rules Now:PC explains JSA

[psychocandy]

If you don't care, then why did you post:

I meant I'm happy to give outline details but, obviously, I aint providing personal detials on the forum.

[psychocandy]

That's your term for banning?

You what?

[psychocandy]

Actually it's based on NI. Do you pay NI?

But no-one is disagreeing that you are allowed to claim if it's legal, are they?

Lower earnings limit is £112 a week. Primary threshold is £155 a week.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-contributions

Im sure you know this but if you pay yourself more than £112 a week but less than £155 you get credited with NI contributions but dont actuall pay anything.

But in response, well, there are people on this forum who think it should be illegal.

[psychocandy]

OK, so it makes sense that contractors can claim expenses because there is an overarching contract of employment that means each workplace is considered temporary. That's what all the current T&S fuss is about.

Contractors' Questions: What’s an overarching contract of employment? :: Contractor UK

"How to know if your contract of employment is overarching

In order for a contract to be considered overarching there must be mutuality of obligation over the duration of the employment, even in the gaps between assignments.

HMRC believes that the correct legal position is set out in the case Clark v Oxfordshire Health Authority, during which Sir Christopher Slade said:

“I would, for my part, accept that the mutual obligations required to found a global contract of employment need not necessarily and in every case consist of obligations to provide and perform work. To take one obvious example, an obligation by the one party to accept and do work if offered and an obligation on the other party to pay a retainer during such periods as work was not offered would in my opinion, be likely to suffice.”

Therefore, if your contract does NOT state that you will be entitled to a regular salary during the course of your employment, and not just when you are on assignment, it will NOT be considered as overarching, and you will have NO entitlement to tax relief on expenses."

It does sound on the face of it like claiming JSA would invalidate the claim to have an overarching contract. I wouldn't risk it, unless I was properly skint.

A consideration I will admit....

[psychocandy]

Interesting point here:

Jobseekers Allowance - Brookson Ltd

"You need to bear in mind when considering claiming JSA the possible impact on your entitlement to expenses from your limited company. HMRC rules state that contractors are entitled to claim tax-free travel and subsistence to their main site providing certain conditions are met. These conditions are based on a long-term commitment to contracting and an ‘overarching’ contract with your limited company. By contrast, where an individual merely has a series of fixed term assignments through a number of different vehicles, HMRC can seek to refuse the tax-free treatment.

It is recommended that you don’t ‘regularly’ claim job seekers allowance between each assignment. This will increase the risk of challenge by HMRC due to starting and stopping contracts and losing the tax relief on these expenses. The legislation is very unclear but this risk should be considered before making any claim."

So if you claim JSA, you're going to be hard pushed to claim there's an overarching contract. I would be surprised if the benefits of claiming JSA outweighed the ability to claim T&S.

Yes its one opinion in a grey area I will admit. Its not like we're not used to grey areas though is it?

But is there any case law to back this up? I doubt it. Has it ever happened to anyone? I doubt it.

Definitely something to think about of course. BUT, JSA claim for 3 months on the bench = almost £1000. Against the slim possibility that HMRC will hunt you down and go for it as above? £1000 = £5000 of expenses claims disallowed that you have to pay CT on.

Not saying I'd ever recommend claiming JSA every time. I've not done so for over 3 years now. Id certainly not recommend someone do it for a few weeks if they were pretty confident they could get something sorted in that time or knew they had something lined up. Its just not worth all the hassle.

Its a balancing act though - when do you start a claim? You cant backdate. So its no good waiting three months and thinking, tulipe, wish I'd claimed three months ago could do with that £1000 now.

Personally, when it next happens to me, I'll see how the market is, see what time of year it is, see whats on the go when I actually leave contract. Probably give it 3-4 weeks then see how we're looking. If its looking bad, always assuming I meet JSA criteria I'll claim.

In the past, I jumped in once, wasted hours of nice bench time filling in forms, attending job centre only to get a gig in about 10 days. So all that hassle for £70 or so.

[eek]

Yes its one opinion in a grey area I will admit. Its not like we're not used to grey areas though is it?

But is there any case law to back this up? I doubt it. Has it ever happened to anyone? I doubt it.

Definitely something to think about of course. BUT, JSA claim for 3 months on the bench = almost £1000. Against the slim possibility that HMRC will hunt you down and go for it as above? £1000 = £5000 of expenses claims disallowed that you have to pay CT on.

Not saying I'd ever recommend claiming JSA every time. I've not done so for over 3 years now. Id certainly not recommend someone do it for a few weeks if they were pretty confident they could get something sorted in that time or knew they had something lined up. Its just not worth all the hassle.

Its a balancing act though - when do you start a claim? You cant backdate. So its no good waiting three months and thinking, tulipe, wish I'd claimed three months ago could do with that £1000 now.

Personally, when it next happens to me, I'll see how the market is, see what time of year it is, see whats on the go when I actually leave contract. Probably give it 3-4 weeks then see how we're looking. If its looking bad, always assuming I meet JSA criteria I'll claim.

In the past, I jumped in once, wasted hours of nice bench time filling in forms, attending job centre only to get a gig in about 10 days. So all that hassle for £70 or so.

Most people have a war chest to cover 6-12 months of likely expenditure and enough savings that they will never be able to claim means benefit support... Why after 3 years of continual contracts are you not in a position to weather a longish gap in contracts...

[LondonManc]

You what?

You were speculating about what would happen if you'd been removed.

[MrMarkyMark]

In the past, I jumped in once, wasted hours of nice bench time filling in forms, attending job centre only to get a gig in about 10 days. So all that hassle for £70 or so.

Breaks my heart to think of you going through such hardship

[dx4100]

Most people have a war chest to cover 6-12 months of likely expenditure and enough savings that they will never be able to claim means benefit support...

I thought Contribution-based JSA wasn't affected by you having savings ?

[dx4100]

In the past, I jumped in once, wasted hours of nice bench time filling in forms, attending job centre only to get a gig in about 10 days. So all that hassle for £70 or so.

I only signed on once while looking for my very first job after University and it such an hassle. Also I was meant to sign on Thursday morning, I got an interview for Thursday morning, job centre still said if I don't attend Thursday morning they would stop the JSA

Got to love the logic there

I wouldn't sign on unless I was properly in the tulip... Which would take me 6 to 12 months to get to...