Ken Livingstone

[vetran]

Quite a hysterical "virtue signalling" attitude to a country that you have no connection with whatsoever. You make no concession about the muslim world contributing to its own situation (it is all the wests fault). Are your victims so pathetic that they need the patronage of people like you? really? they are all hapless victims of western decadence and imperialism? Hamas political leaders leave Syria for Egypt and Qatar - BBC News
Are you saying that we should now realise our guilt and subjugate ourselves to their ways?

You think if the Muslim Nutters (which it seems some countries have a large supply) take over here they will throw some posters off a car park for being mentally ill?

[sasguru]

Israel directs USA which then directs Egypt.

Don't think any "failures" in the region are not properly planned to make sure they fail. There is a lot more at stake here such as selling arms for Billions.

Complete saloon-bar bollux. Your level of argument is similar to a UKIP supporter's.
Making a statement because you're plucked a belief from thin air isn't a good argument.

I think what happened in Egypt is very much like what happened in Algeria in the 1990s.
The people voted for an (arguably) Islamist party and the conservatives decided they weren't having it.

[sasguru]

Oh how a pictures speaks a 1000 words

And your point is what?

[LondonManc]

Turkey is a nasty state which supports ISIS, no doubt. But the means by which Erdogan got into power was by Democracy.

Iraq is a victim of the plundering of the west and surrounding countries. When you have a massively wealthy state like Saudi - supported by the West, funneling Billions into terrorism to create ISIS, you can't then go and blame the Iraqis. The west helped create ISIS in the first place by supporting the "Syrian opposition". So don't go talking tulip about Iraq allowing ISIS to be created - they have the whole world against them.

The sad thing is, Russia came and turned the tide in days, showing that the West had no desire for ISIS to be destroyed. In fact it was annoyed that Russia came and cleaned up their mess! And I have no love for Russia by the way - just saying it as it is.

And you managed to miss out all the other countries which have successful democracies and Muslim majorities.

Blimey, you are blinkered. I didn't say Iraq allowed ISIS to be created; it's not exactly dealing with its own problem though, is it?

Totally agree about Saudi, but it's Saudi that's propagating Wahhabi values through UK mosques so perhaps the Muslim communities within the UK need to stamp it out too? Or is it inconvenient when they're funding the mosques?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Blimey, you are blinkered. I didn't say Iraq allowed ISIS to be created; it's not exactly dealing with its own problem though, is it?

Totally agree about Saudi, but it's Saudi that's propagating Wahhabi values through UK mosques so perhaps the Muslim communities within the UK need to stamp it out too? Or is it inconvenient when they're funding the mosques?

Think of Saudi as the equivalent of Manchester City FC. They have the money to buy anybody they want. The rest of the Muslims are like Conference North guys trying to compete with them but they just don't have the financial backing.

Also think of Men in Black. In the UK we are trying to deal with little flies. You need to go to the mother ship if you want to finish it off.

[sasguru]

The plans for the middle-east are longer than 1 year. The British Empire was a long lasting empire and there is a lot of experience in there spanning centuries. It's foolish to think that the problems in the middle-east today are by complete chance. Yes the west can't control everything but the general path the region takes is being orchestrated here and in Washington.

Very wise saying to think about:

Generally I find people who subscribe to conspiracy theories are of generally low intelligence and poor judgement.
You only have to look at the state of this country to see that cock-up is the order of the day, let alone being able to influence other countries over centuries.
But I know from experience there's no way to argue with people who are illogical. It's mainly an IQ thing.
And for that reason I'll add you to the list of CUK cretins and leave you to spout your crap on this thread.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

And your solution to the middle east is what exactly

To be honest with you - I can't see any solution so long as Israel is there. Regardless of who is right or wrong, they both believe the other shouldn't be there. And while you might find what Naz Shah said as offensive, there is a slightly twisted logic in there (as I said I believe there should be one democratic state where everybody is equal). It's similar logic to Ahmedinijad, who suggested Israel should be located to Germany because why should the Palestinians pay for the crimes for the holocaust? You might disagree but what they are saying is a valid point IMO. Shutting it down as anti-semitism rather than discussing it isn't going to get us anywhere. People making the suggestion might have arrived at the conviction that Israel will never be fair and is going to keep going until it wipes Palestine permanently off the map and then perhaps heads off to Lebanon and Syria to steal more land.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Generally I find people who subscribe to conspiracy theories are of generally low intelligence and poor judgement.
You only have to look at the state of this country to see that cock-up is the order of the day, let alone being able to influence other countries over centuries.
But I know from experience there's no way to argue with people who are illogical. It's mainly an IQ thing.
And for that reason I'll add you to the list of CUK cretins and leave you to spout your crap on this thread.

There is no theory in historic facts i'm afraid. The creation of Israel, breaking up of the middle east and the constant meddling in foreign affairs are all realities.

[BrilloPad]

To be honest with you - I can't see any solution so long as Israel is there. Regardless of who is right or wrong, they both believe the other shouldn't be there.

So why does Israel have to go?

[BrilloPad]

And your solution to the middle east is what exactly

Could we send a middle east peace envoy? Is Tony Blair free?