Ken Livingstone

[LondonManc]

I'd not expect that from an old, experienced SAS programmer.... I thought you were better than that.

This is what the media and the politicians want us to believe - the Muslims can't rule themselves, they are incapable. Talk about stereotyping and racism. Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey, Malaysia, Tunisia, Morocco. Some examples of functioning democracies. Iraq can't be blamed on the Iraqis - It has been plundered and raped non step by the west and their puppet allies (who they installed initially).

The systems that are being forced upon these lands is a western form of democracy. Democracy works but it needs to be adapted to the environment it is in.

Turkey's a democracy in name only. The AKP and Erdogan's entourage have seen to it that since the Gezi protests of 2013 the freedoms of speech, etc. have been stifled and opponents are now seen as enemies of the state, more formally known as "enemies of the national will".

If Iraq was functioning, you wouldn't have ISIS in there.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Ken said:
Here, he seems to be saying that hatred for Jews in Israel is ok. Thing is, racism is hatred of an identifiable people group. Legitimising hatred of a group of people is not a good thing, but this is apparently what Ken is doing - Ken promotes hatred towards Jews in Israel, and is therefore a racist and an apologist for racists.

The Israeli government and army doing tulip stuff doesn't mean that Ken is in the right.

Point out one time that Ken said direct your anger/hate towards the Jews rather than the Government and Leaders in Israel?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Turkey's a democracy in name only. The AKP and Erdogan's entourage have seen to it that since the Gezi protests of 2013 the freedoms of speech, etc. have been stifled and opponents are now seen as enemies of the state, more formally known as "enemies of the national will".

If Iraq was functioning, you wouldn't have ISIS in there.

Turkey is a nasty state which supports ISIS, no doubt. But the means by which Erdogan got into power was by Democracy.

Iraq is a victim of the plundering of the west and surrounding countries. When you have a massively wealthy state like Saudi - supported by the West, funneling Billions into terrorism to create ISIS, you can't then go and blame the Iraqis. The west helped create ISIS in the first place by supporting the "Syrian opposition". So don't go talking tulip about Iraq allowing ISIS to be created - they have the whole world against them.

The sad thing is, Russia came and turned the tide in days, showing that the West had no desire for ISIS to be destroyed. In fact it was annoyed that Russia came and cleaned up their mess! And I have no love for Russia by the way - just saying it as it is.

And you managed to miss out all the other countries which have successful democracies and Muslim majorities.

[NotAllThere]

You can read the full transcripts here and make up your own minds. Labour antisemitism row: Ken Livingstone interview transcipts in full | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Regardless, the man is, and always has been, a nasty piece of work.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

You can read the full transcripts here and make up your own minds. Labour antisemitism row: Ken Livingstone interview transcipts in full | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Regardless, the man is, and always has been, a nasty piece of work.

Can't find anything anti-semitic I'm afraid. Far worse has been said by the Prime Minister towards other groups.

[sasguru]

Can you not see that was by design? Following the creation of Israel, they decided they were never going to have another war with their neighbours. Easiest way out install puppets and make sure they never leave without your permission. Look at Mubarak and now Sisi - there is only one ruler of those countries in the region and it is Israel.

Yes lets trot out the conspiracy theories to support the failings of those we support.
During the cold war, you may have had a point as both the US and Russia propped up their respective puppets.
What happened in Egypt recently is totally Egypt's failure.
But of course an expert like you living in the North of England knows better - must be those clever Jews eh?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Yes lets trot out the conspiracy theories to support the failings of those we support.
During the cold war, you may have had a point as both the US and Russia propped up their respective puppets.
What happened in Egypt recently is totally Egypt's failure.
But of course an expert like you living in the North of England knows better - must be those clever Jews eh?

Let's talk facts:

- Egypt has blockaded the Gaza and made sure it is a prison for all the Palestinians living there
- Everytime Israel went to war with Lebanon, the Gulf states criticised the Lebanese for it
- Turkey are strong allies with Israel
- All the Gulf states are against Iran

Now it seems to me that the gulf states and Israeli neighbours have quite a lot in common with Israel.

Oh and let's not forget Jordan. I've been there and it's the safest country in the middle-east. Best chums with Israel apparently.

[sasguru]

Let's talk facts:

- Egypt has blockaded the Gaza and made sure it is a prison for all the Palestinians living there
- Everytime Israel went to war with Lebanon, the Gulf states criticised the Lebanese for it
- Turkey are strong allies with Israel
- All the Gulf states are against Iran

Now it seems to me that the gulf states and Israeli neighbours have quite a lot in common with Israel.

Oh and let's not forget Jordan. I've been there and it's the safest country in the middle-east. Best chums with Israel apparently.

Complete non sequitur.
None of your "facts" prove that Israel have manipulated Egypt's outcome.

[suityou01]

Ken said:
Here, he seems to be saying that hatred for Jews in Israel is ok. Thing is, racism is hatred of an identifiable people group. Legitimising hatred of a group of people is not a good thing, but this is apparently what Ken is doing - Ken promotes hatred towards Jews in Israel, and is therefore a racist and an apologist for racists.

The Israeli government and army doing tulip stuff doesn't mean that Ken is in the right.

Basically this. Netanyahu is a thug, and his government and militia are thugs and criminals. It doesn't mean that the population of Israel are coloured with the same brush. Far from it. The first step to a peaceful settlement is getting rid of him.

Livingston insinuated that his critic had not properly read and understood Mein Kampf, in that Hitler was a Zionist before he went nuts. This is again not true. Hitler clearly states in his book, that the German Empire (the formation of a new Bismarkesque version of it) was being impeded by two "evils". Marxism and Judaism. This was written in his time in jail in 1926, way before this alleged philanthropic state sponsored exodus of Jews to Palestine (as it was then).

So I think Ken looks a complete fool, and not for the first time in his life.

[DodgyAgent]

Let's talk facts:

- Egypt has blockaded the Gaza and made sure it is a prison for all the Palestinians living there
- Everytime Israel went to war with Lebanon, the Gulf states criticised the Lebanese for it
- Turkey are strong allies with Israel
- All the Gulf states are against Iran

Now it seems to me that the gulf states and Israeli neighbours have quite a lot in common with Israel.

Oh and let's not forget Jordan. I've been there and it's the safest country in the middle-east. Best chums with Israel apparently.

Quite a hysterical "virtue signalling" attitude to a country that you have no connection with whatsoever. You make no concession about the muslim world contributing to its own situation (it is all the wests fault). Are your victims so pathetic that they need the patronage of people like you? really? they are all hapless victims of western decadence and imperialism? Hamas political leaders leave Syria for Egypt and Qatar - BBC News
Are you saying that we should now realise our guilt and subjugate ourselves to their ways?