No discussion on the Remains leaflet?

[sasguru]

Very interesting article in the Telegraph this morning talking about the Davos "intelligent" elite and the establishment and their attitude to the EU. It is essentially about these people's belief that us stupid plebs cannot be trusted with Democracy and that we need these people to oversee the rest of us

We’re so used to EU rule that we’ve forgotten how to do it for ourselvesÂ*

Take the Remain camp: its world view might as well be inspired by the works of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, one of the French-speaking-world’s most famous thinkers.
His message was as powerful as it was terrifying. The people “must be forced to be free”. The reason? In a good and mature society, we would all abide naturally by “the general will”; in the real world, unfortunately, people don’t always do the right thing and must, therefore, be guided by an enlightened elite.



I think I prefer to take my chances and trust sharing my decisions with your average pleb than trust the rich and powerful

None of your post really refutes my economic point.

[sasguru]

And as Germany exports more to the UK than it imports from the UK we would be quids in

Doesn't really refute my economic point or make any sense at all.
Germans know that if prices of their products were raised (indirectly through us putting tariffs) we'd still buy their products.
But if Europe put tariffs on Uk manuafactured products, our UK made Qashqais and Civics, which are less attractive would cost more.
Result: Our trade deficit would be even worse than it is, FDI in the UK wouldn't be an attractive proposition.

[BlasterBates]

This is a good point, Germany and Switzerland had world class industries that export through tariffs as if they don't exist.

Having worked in British Engineering companies I can confirm they produce "crap", the Austin Princess was not a one off. Britain relies on foreign companies to produce because Brits are incapable of doing it. The UK is essentially a staging post for foreign companies to export into the EU.

[sasguru]

Britain relies on foreign companies to produce because Brits are incapable of doing it. .

I don't agree with that. Britain has a few centres of excellence particularly in Aerospace.
But post Brexit, I don't suppose the French and Germans will really have any incentive to order Rolls Royce rather than Snecma engines for Airbus, for example.
It's an interesting question, what would happen to aerospace - which is tightly interwoven into the European Airbus project - post Brexit?

[DodgyAgent]

Doesn't really refute my economic point or make any sense at all.
Germans know that if prices of their products were raised (indirectly through us putting tariffs) we'd still buy their products.
But if Europe put tariffs on Uk manuafactured products, our UK made Qashqais and Civics, which are less attractive would cost more.
Result: Our trade deficit would be even worse than it is, FDI in the UK wouldn't be an attractive proposition.

Moving of manufacturing from the UK is a separate point which I acknowledge is a more than reasonable argument. However what you fail to acknowledge is that the UK imports far more from the EU than it exports so in terms of finance the balance from tariffs would benefit the UK. If Nissan did decide to move from the UK because of increased tariffs selling to the EU then if they were to sell back to the UK they would face tariffs accessing UK markets.
The upshot is that the EU and UK would get instantly busy in renegotiating trade deals. I am pretty sure there would be a lead time for exiting during which new trade deals could be negotiated.

[DodgyAgent]

This is a good point, Germany and Switzerland had world class industries that export through tariffs as if they don't exist.

Having worked in British Engineering companies I can confirm they produce "crap", the Austin Princess was not a one off. Britain relies on foreign companies to produce because Brits are incapable of doing it. The UK is essentially a staging post for foreign companies to export into the EU.

Spoken like a redneck

[BlasterBates]

Spoken like a redneck

The UK has one world world class tech company, just one !

An article in The Economist earlier this year highlighted that for all the vibrancy in UK tech start-ups, very few have grown to any scale. Only two British firms (ARM and Autonomy) were world-class: respected (or feared) in Silicon Valley and big enough to matter (FTSE100 listed). After HP's acquisition of Autonomy it leaves only one world-class British technology company.

That's why the Uk is f***ed when it outside the EU single market. It has nothing to sell, apart from bolted together Japanese cars.

[DodgyAgent]

The UK has one world world class tech company, just one !



That's why the Uk is f***ed when it outside the EU single market. It has nothing to sell, apart from bolted together Japanese cars.

Does it really matter?

[DimPrawn]

The UK has one world world class tech company, just one !



That's why the Uk is f***ed when it outside the EU single market. It has nothing to sell, apart from bolted together Japanese cars.

Britain is a World leader. Here's a useful list to remind everyone.

29 Things Britain Does Better Than The Rest Of The World

Makes yer proud!

[BlasterBates]

Michael Gove talks about the UK being like Turkey, but I can't see that happening:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe..._Customs_Union

Turkey, by accepting the customs union protocol, was giving the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country (i.e. all the other countries in the world) by precondition. (16th and 55th articles[4] )
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty. (56th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU. (8th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge. (64th article[4])

Basically he UK won't have any agreement at all with the EU other than WTO rules.