The Farce Awakens...

[seanraaron]

Or only pay it if you can be ar$ed to bring your kids over and actually give them a proper family life HTH.

Yeah I can't see why the child benefits cannot be re-worded so it only applies to resident children - surely that doesn't even require any input from EU members? Either that or jettison child benefit in its present form and replace it with something that only applies to residents.

Not really much different than closing tax loopholes, really, which just makes it look more like fodder for political pandering than a real issue that requires negotiations to resolve.

[PurpleGorilla]

A straw poll of friends and family, pretty even; but most of the men want to leave and most of the women want to stay.

[vetran]

A straw poll of friends and family, pretty even; but most of the men want to leave and most of the women want to stay.

why did you worry their little heads about it?

[PurpleGorilla]

why did you worry their little heads about it?

Because I value my friends and family's opinions.

[vetran]

Because I value my friends and family's opinions.

too subtle obviously

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

out of curiosity why did the ladies want to stay in?

[PurpleGorilla]

too subtle obviously

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

out of curiosity why did the ladies want to stay in?

Gosh, well....

• best off changing the EU from within
• risk averse - huge hit to economy if BREXIT
• end up like Norway, no say in policies, but huge fee to access common market
• even if we vote to leave, it will not happen, there will be more votes until the majority vote to stay (as per Ireland)

[VectraMan]

Yeah I can't see why the child benefits cannot be re-worded so it only applies to resident children - surely that doesn't even require any input from EU members? Either that or jettison child benefit in its present form and replace it with something that only applies to residents.

There's always the problem that the Polish worker gets paid less (or taxed more) than an identical British worker, which is against the fundamental equality principles of the EU.

But yes get rid of the whole tax credit nonsense and go back to actually giving the money indirectly to children in the UK, and then the problems go away.

Not really much different than closing tax loopholes, really, which just makes it look more like fodder for political pandering than a real issue that requires negotiations to resolve.

Indeed. He had to win something, and perhaps it wins over a very small number of people. But Kippers wouldn't care even if the Cameron negotiated free wine and cheese for all UK citizens for life; they'd still vote against it.

[seanraaron]

There's always the problem that the Polish worker gets paid less (or taxed more) than an identical British worker, which is against the fundamental equality principles of the EU.

But yes get rid of the whole tax credit nonsense and go back to actually giving the money indirectly to children in the UK, and then the problems go away.

I'm not getting the first point. It's not like someone is working a perm job in the UK and doing a daily commute back to Poland, so I can't see how they could claim child benefit in the first place.

I'm also cautious about binning child tax credits without replacing it with something else that's a direct means-tested payment. In the states there are no "tax credits" that get paid up-front: you claim money back on your tax return; main problem being you have to front the cash the whole year. Tax credits make a huge difference for too many people to just chuck out the window.

[VectraMan]

Our esteemed leader should stick to bothering pig's heads.

Bit of a false analogy. Neville Chamberlain was arguing that it wasn't necessary for us to get involved in Europe; that what was going on on the continent was not our problem. He was the Nigel Farage of the day, without the comedy claims of the establishment undoing his wheel nuts.

[VectraMan]

I'm not getting the first point. It's not like someone is working a perm job in the UK and doing a daily commute back to Poland, so I can't see how they could claim child benefit in the first place.

Child tax credit is meant to give a break to anyone who's a parent; recognising that they have another life to support. Just because the child happens to be in another country doesn't make them any less a parent.

I can understand why people get upset about it; perhaps it is a bit of a liberal lefty policy, but that is the rule we have and to apply different tax rules to EU immigrants is to discriminate against them. Many people would say "so what, they should have been born British if they wanted to have children", but that's against the principles of freedom of movement and would work against British citizens abroad too. You could solve it by saying that everybody receives benefits from their home country, but that only works if everyone also pays tax to their home country. I think at the end of the day it's entirely reasonable to say if you work in Britain and pay the full amount of tax in Britain you should get equal treatment. If you turn up do bugger all and expect hand outs, then that's a different argument. But that's not what we're talking about.