I'm done with using a limited.

[MrMarkyMark]

Running a LTD stressful.....puuulease pour me another .

Can't say I have felt stressed out for the last 15 years of running one.

[scooterscot]

Unlimited liability is not an issue really assuming you have correct insurances. Employers?
Folk don't wish to engage sole traders mainly due to the oft-pushed notion that Limited are "safer" to work with, which is utter nonsense.

You've hit the nail on the head. There's a perception Ltd's are safer. Codswallop.

You can get insurance for liability (in fact some do through their Ltd already, so what's the point of a Ltd again?), and earnings using cash accounting is limitless. The idea that operating a 'cash accounting' system is only for 'odd jobs' is Codswallop+

Here's how Ltd's idea is sold:

Potential for more take home pay - yes, providing you're willing to wait three years before you can wind down the company. I want to live now.

Greater borrowing power to expand your business - Seriously? Growth is debt?

A company status that can attract bigger business - not in my experience. The really funny part here, get ready for this, I was working for the likes of BAE, Rolls Royce when in the UK but only via a Ltd. It's all the agent would accept. Now in Germany I work for them as a sole traders, yes UK based companies, but the German cash accounting equivalent and they have no problem with that.

The ability to work with more agencies (many won’t work with sole traders) - Well if you want to work with agents and not clients that's your bag.

You’ll also get limited liability- legal protection that separates your own finances from that of your company in case things go unexpectedly fruit shaped (not that they will- we’ve got faith in you)

nonsense nonsense nonsense - who buys this?

[MrMarkyMark]

Now in Germany I work for them as a sole traders, yes UK based companies, but the German cash accounting equivalent and they have no problem with that.

Interesting....thanks for sharing.

[LucidDementia]

I think it all comes down to the agents.

Guess work but - if the agents all started out as sole traders and business quickly caught up to the fact they're all spivs and crooks they then flipped to Limiteds and claimed they were safe and legitimate. Of course if you're entire industry is based on that lie you have to push it hard, thus contractors end up pushed into Limited.

No basis for this other than my own musings, but it makes sense.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Don't be fooled into thinking that using an umbrella is free, you pay a fee, which for some reason is not related to the work involved. You should pay per payment, typically £25-30 per week, but if you opt for monthly this jumps to £100-120 per month - why is this higher, it doesn't cost more to process an invoice for £1,000 than one for £4,000 ???

Although academic, the brolly also pockets the VAT claimed back on mileage, a small amount per client but a very nice earner when multiplied by a large client base.

The umbrella (if you use a good one):

Liaises with the agency/end client and sorts out all the paperwork for you which includes checking the contract to make sure that there's nothing it it that will bite them or you in the bum later
Checks all your expense claims to make sure that they're correct and that you won't get a nasty surprise from HMRC at a later date
Pays for your PI insurance as well as Employer's and Public liability insurance (for us this is £22k per year)
Pays statutory sick pay when you're off sick (which cannot be reclaimed from HMG)
Pays statutory maternity pay (of which 92% can be reclaimed but when you have earners on £500 per day plus the cost to the brollie can be high)
Chases outstanding invoices
Sorts out pension auto-enrolment (which, quite frankly, is a pain in the a**e and an expensive administration cost (not your problem I know but it's a pet hate of mine )
Sorts our your PAYE which means that you don't have to worry about putting money aside for a tax/VAT bill which is due months down the line
Stops you worrying about IR35 and lets you know about anything else that, as a contractor, you might need to worry about thanks to the HM hatstands

[EternalOptimist]

Sole trader then.

difficulties with agents (maybe)
more income tax
no accountants fees
no dividends tax
no corporation tax
no worries about being forced into permie
no ir35
no vat malarky

[LucidDementia]

Sole trader then.

difficulties with agents (maybe)
more income tax
no accountants fees
no dividends tax
no corporation tax
no worries about being forced into permie
no ir35
no vat malarky

Plus nearly everything you could think about blagging becomes an expense. You are the business.

[scooterscot]

Sole trader then.

difficulties with agents (maybe)
more income tax
no accountants fees
no dividends tax
no corporation tax
no worries about being forced into permie
no ir35
no vat malarky

I still use an accountant!

And yes YOU are the business. Which actually is rather cool than frightening.

[NickFitz]

Is there really that much hassle compared to the rewards?

Much as I enjoy bench time, the dotcom slump resulted in me having a much longer dose of it than was pleasant. Then I got a short-term gig at a design agency while they waited for a permie to join. Then the permie couldn't join after all, and they offered me the job instead. It was a good place to work, and I was still feeling stressed by the long-bench experience, so I took the job and ditched my Ltd.

After a very busy ten months or so the web work dried up, leaving the agency with lots of print work and so forth and me with very little to do. So, almost exactly a year after I'd started, I was made redundant, with immediate effect and a decent payoff.

The same day, I arranged an interview the following day for a gig in Bristol, which I landed, and started the day after that. Company formation wasn't so quick and easy to arrange back then as it is now, particularly in the context of starting a gig that involved staying away from home at such short notice. (Many hotels didn't even have wifi back then; we forget how hard it could be to get reliable Internet access when away from home, even just ten years ago.) Signing up with a brolly and arranging the contract through them, however, took a phone call and a couple of emails that same afternoon in between packing. So I did that, and then couldn't be bothered with setting up a Ltd, and carried on like that for a number of years.

[EternalOptimist]

holy cr@p

I just ran it through the ST calculator. I would be 2k a year better off
and that's playing it straight