Corbyn's question, taxes and "entitlement"

[d000hg]

Well actually no - you are simply not addressing the issue.

There are families who are in the third or fourth generation of never having worked a day in their life and continue to breed and bring up kids - who have no intention of being productive members of society who then breed and bring up kids - who have no intention of being productive members of society....

While it's not the norm, sure there are people like that.

But we're talking about people feeding their children, not people having jobs or wanting to work. I bet lots of kids who only get cooked meals at school have working parents.
The UK stereotype is the lazy benefit scrounger, neglecting their kid, but the US stereotype is the minimum wage mother, working all hours and neglecting their kid.

You have to break the chain - which means at some point one of these generations will not get anything for free and they will have to work - and if they do not work they will get minimal/nothing - and yes the children will suffer - for 1 generation only.

So you're basically saying we should starve an entire generation of people who are essentially unemployable, and their children? How are the children brought up under this regime going to have any skills when they're too hungry to learn at school (this is a well-proven link)?

Then once it is clear that if you do not become a productive member of society then you may well go hungry and have nothing we may find that we have less non productive members of society.

Why the obsession that everyone has to BE a productive member of society?
This whole idea that the entire point of your education is to grow up to be a productive, well-behaved little worker-bee...

[original PM]

While it's not the norm, sure there are people like that.

But we're talking about people feeding their children, not people having jobs or wanting to work. I bet lots of kids who only get cooked meals at school have working parents.
The UK stereotype is the lazy benefit scrounger, neglecting their kid, but the US stereotype is the minimum wage mother, working all hours and neglecting their kid.


So you're basically saying we should starve an entire generation of people who are essentially unemployable, and their children? How are the children brought up under this regime going to have any skills when they're too hungry to learn at school (this is a well-proven link)?

Why the obsession that everyone has to BE a productive member of society?
This whole idea that the entire point of your education is to grow up to be a productive, well-behaved little worker-bee...

In a democratic capitalist society yes the whole point of free education is so you can then become productive and add value to society.

In a socialist state no of course everyone does not have to be a productive member of society - they also may find that means they do not eat but hey.....lets no let the facts get in the way of our idealism.

[vetran]

Why the obsession that everyone has to BE a productive member of society?
This whole idea that the entire point of your education is to grow up to be a productive, well-behaved little worker-bee...

why is there is an obsession for subsidising people who choose not to be a productive member of society?

[MicrosoftBob]

why is there is an obsession for subsidising people who choose not to be a productive member of society?

Because they vote Labour

[DieScum]

why is there is an obsession for subsidising people who choose not to be a productive member of society?

The obsession is with reducing child poverty. Children don't have a choice. In the original article for this post the people affected by tax credit cuts are two adults and five children.

[vetran]

The obsession is with reducing child poverty. Children don't have a choice. In the original article for this post the people affected by tax credit cuts are two adults and five children.

And the point made by the OP was why should tax payers who chose not to breed so prolifically subsidise her lifestyle. I'm not talking about us, who apart from a few people who love the bench can well afford to do so. I'm talking about the ones who earn less than average wage but subsidise a lifestyle they can't afford without milking benefits.

[DieScum]

And the point made by the OP was why should tax payers who chose not to breed so prolifically subsidise her lifestyle. I'm not talking about us, who apart from a few people who love the bench can well afford to do so. I'm talking about the ones who earn less than average wage but subsidise a lifestyle they can't afford without milking benefits.

Well yeah, you are subsidising her lifestyle but that's just a byproduct of providing children a decent start in life.
They don't have a choice. They are the most important.

[vetran]

Well yeah, you are subsidising her lifestyle but that's just a byproduct of providing children a decent start in life.
They don't have a choice. They are the most important.

and there we are, with Emotion overtaking logic the argument is clearly beyond you.

[d000hg]

In a democratic capitalist society yes the whole point of free education is so you can then become productive and add value to society.

In a socialist state no of course everyone does not have to be a productive member of society

I'm not sure you don't have that the wrong way round. Socialism relies on everyone working for the benefit of everyone else.

And I didn't ask why people should have to be productive in <insert choice of political system>. I asked why they should have to be, full stop.
Clearly we don't actually need all our population to work - even now we have a reasonable proportion who don't 'produce' anything and there's not only enough to go round, but more than enough. The main reason people seem have for "they should work for their food" is just jealousy "I've got to work so so should they" / "but it's not fair". And?

[AtW]

I'm not sure you don't have that the wrong way round. Socialism relies on everyone working for the benefit of everyone else.

No, socialism relies in very high taxes on income of those who are working for the benefit of others, otherwise whole thing would not work.