Why we MUST ditch our lazy attitude to finding work through agents and agencies

[Bacchus]

Actually no I do pay more, the corporation tax I pay is treble what I paid in tax, NI and what was paid Employers NI when I was a permanent employee. You may not think specialist skills are a good enough reason but I do and trust me when I say there's not many if any who are being trained that can do my role. You say nurses but you should be looking at it more from the standpoint of surgeon it would be a more appropriate reference.

I wasn't trying to belittle your skill-set, I was merely pointing out an enormous group of people who do a job that I simply couldn't

I have a friend who is a top, top trauma surgeon. She lives in London because that is where the big hospitals are... (mind you, she can afford to!)

[Bacchus]

We are not the same as permies. FFS, where's my employment contract? Where's my pension, health cover, sick pay? Where's my holiday pay and entitlement? Where's my rights to a tribuneral, where's my legal pay for being made redundant?

Why aren't you paying employers NI? Why don't you charge VAT on your salary?


We aren't ******* permie staff! Simples!

Surely these reside with yourco?

[BrilloPad]

We aren't ******* permie staff! Simples!

According to HMRC you are tax avoiding scum. Of course it was fine while it was just the BN66 mob. Not so nice now is it?

Basically parliament listens to HMRC. Parliament can make any law they want.

As there are only a couple of hundred thousand of us, no-one will listen.

Don't worry though. Things could be worse. You could be divorced. Or live in Swindon.

[DimPrawn]

Surely these reside with yourco?

Exactly, there's always this "I'm a permie, you are a permie, you should pay more tax". We are not permies, there's no like for like whatsoever. I work for my own company, you don't. I manage a company, you don't.

Drives me insane.

[The Spartan]

I wasn't trying to belittle your skill-set, I was merely pointing out an enormous group of people who do a job that I simply couldn't

I have a friend who is a top, top trauma surgeon. She lives in London because that is where the big hospitals are... (mind you, she can afford to!)

No problem, the point I was trying to make is that there aren't a lot people who can do the work I do, so I was looking at it for a numbers standpoint. I did contemplate moving previously but the wife wants to close to her family and my daughter is settled where she is (plus she is a Welsh speaker) so it's not really an option.

[VectraMan]

We are not the same as permies. FFS, where's my employment contract? Where's my pension, health cover, sick pay? Where's my holiday pay and entitlement? Where's my rights to a tribuneral, where's my legal pay for being made redundant?

Why aren't you paying employers NI? Why don't you charge VAT on your salary?

We aren't ******* permie staff! Simples!

And for all of that you get to charge twice as much. Why should you be entitled to tax avoidance as well?

Do you think a permie on £50K would see a £100K job as not worth it because they couldn't claim tax relief on travel to work? Because that's basically what you're saying. Plenty of contractors have been quite happy working through an umbrella basically giving in to IR35; if they really did clamp down and get rid of expenses and make it impossible for anyone to operate outside IR35 it would still be well worth contracting over the equivalent permie job.

[MrMarkyMark]

And for all of that you get to charge twice as much. Why should you be entitled to tax avoidance as well?

Do you think a permie on £50K would see a £100K job as not worth it because they couldn't claim tax relief on travel to work? Because that's basically what you're saying. Plenty of contractors have been quite happy working through an umbrella basically giving in to IR35; if they really did clamp down and get rid of expenses and make it impossible for anyone to operate outside IR35 it would still be well worth contracting over the equivalent permie job.

Hopefully, almost 3* as much .

Why?

pension, health cover, sick pay? Where's my holiday pay and entitlement?

bonuses, career progression, training etc

And risk, maybe?

How much do you think you cost your Co?
No one is "entitled" to tax avoidance, true, however I'm sure you would be participating, if you were able.

[DimPrawn]

How much do you think you cost your Co?

I believe taking into the cost of hiring permies, all the benefits they get, the legal protection as employees, tax overhead to the company, it is pretty much 2 x gross salary.

So permies cost as much as a contractor, and have 1/2 the skills, work ethic and experience. Oh and they are off sick pretty much most of the year.

[MrMarkyMark]

it is pretty much 2 x gross salary.

Your understanding aligns with mine.
In fact my stepdad used to employ a few people and was the 1st person to tell me about the double gross figure.

[darmstadt]

If such a plan was put into place then presumably contractors would pay the same price in the subsidised staff canteen, for those working in London then a London weighting allowance would be granted and interest free loans for buying a season ticket? These are items that permies get and contractors don't....