Why we MUST ditch our lazy attitude to finding work through agents and agencies

[MrMarkyMark]

another would be the fact I pay a lot more in tax now than I would pay if I were in permanent employment.

Exactly this.
Does HMRC think that they will get more tax revenue if we all become perm?

[Bacchus]

Because we have specialist skills that they're not able to find elsewhere would be one reason I would say, another would be the fact I pay a lot more in tax now than I would pay if I were in permanent employment.

I don't think that having specialist skills is a good enough reason. A nurse has skills that I couldn't possibly hope to emulate.

Even with the exes thing I don't think you'd pay as much tax as the permanent if you take employer's and employee's NI into consideration. Now if the proposed change to assume that anyone who works via an agency is under control and supervision and therefore within IR35 happens then that will change, but this will drive contractors away, business will suffer and rates will have to accomodate that by increasing rates to pay for the flexibility of having contractors in the workplace. Supply and demand that is.

[DimPrawn]

Or this.

Nobody puts a gun to our heads and tells us to live/work anywhere or to take a contract miles from home; it's a free choice.

HMRC and Govt. make the rules. If we can exist happily within them, then we do, otherwise do something else. Contractors, by their nature, are generally enterprising people, yes?

(I do think it will result in severe labour shortages and "Bobbification" though )

I know three families (building trade related) who have or are in the process of emigrating to Australia. Like for like, the houses and lifestyle is leagues ahead of here, and they have nice big coastal homes to move into.

5 bedroom property for sale in 5 Learmond Court, MOONTA BAY 5558, Australia

They have effectively sold up their tiny £400K house here, and have money left in their pockets for boats, cars, savings, with better paid work.

[eek]

I don't think that having specialist skills is a good enough reason. A nurse has skills that I couldn't possibly hope to emulate.

Even with the exes thing I don't think you'd pay as much tax as the permanent if you take employer's and employee's NI into consideration. Now if the proposed change to assume that anyone who works via an agency is under control and supervision and therefore within IR35 happens then that will change, but this will drive contractors away, business will suffer and rates will have to accomodate that by increasing rates to pay for the flexibility of having contractors in the workplace. Supply and demand that is.

No it wouldn't. Supply will drop and offshore companies will have a field day...

[The Spartan]

Or this.

Nobody puts a gun to our heads and tells us to live/work anywhere or to take a contract miles from home; it's a free choice.

HMRC and Govt. make the rules. If we can exist happily within them, then we do, otherwise do something else. Contractors, by their nature, are generally enterprising people, yes?

(I do think it will result in severe labour shortages and "Bobbification" though )

That's right no one puts a gun to our head, but here is the point there are consultancies that do more or less what we do they charge more and their consultants can claim T&S how is what we do any different? We provide the same service (probably better) for less and unlike these consultancies pay the correct amount of corporation tax a year.

So I should just toss away a decade of skills because I live in an area not renowned for technology, I'm all for rules but it's not a level playing field.

[Bacchus]

I can think of 3 friends of mine who live in London and are yet commuting to get to a contract. One's travelling to Newbury everyday, another Folkestone on a Mon - Fri and the other one Basingstoke.

And they haven't taken these roles over anything they've been offered in London either.

It's not quite as simple as moving to where the work is.

Not a simple equation, no, I agree, but I have stayed within the M4 corridor for the last twenty years for this very reason (Newbury and Basingstoke both do-able, had a good gig in Basingstoke...)

I have had stay away gigs too, which would have to be priced accordingly, but on the whole this location has given me good access to work.

Thinking of moving away from contracting now (as it is becoming increasingly not worth the extra effort and expense of runnign the business), so can physically move away from the area - bigger house, no mortgage, ker-ching

[The Spartan]

I don't think that having specialist skills is a good enough reason. A nurse has skills that I couldn't possibly hope to emulate.

Even with the exes thing I don't think you'd pay as much tax as the permanent if you take employer's and employee's NI into consideration. Now if the proposed change to assume that anyone who works via an agency is under control and supervision and therefore within IR35 happens then that will change, but this will drive contractors away, business will suffer and rates will have to accomodate that by increasing rates to pay for the flexibility of having contractors in the workplace. Supply and demand that is.

Actually no I do pay more, the corporation tax I pay is treble what I paid in tax, NI and what was paid Employers NI when I was a permanent employee. You may not think specialist skills are a good enough reason but I do and trust me when I say there's not many if any who are being trained that can do my role. You say nurses but you should be looking at it more from the standpoint of surgeon it would be a more appropriate reference.

[Bacchus]

consultancies that do more or less what we do they charge more and their consultants can claim T&S how is what we do any different?

I don't think it is different, I worked on a gig in the city as a contractor sitting alongside a good bunch who were from a consultancy. We turned up every day and did similar work but the client thought of us differently, especially when it came to telling them when we were not going to be there. This is one of the reasons that I didn't renew (one of them), although I left on good terms and have been talking about some consultancy work!

So I should just toss away a decade of skills because I live in an area not renowned for technology, I'm all for rules but it's not a level playing field.

No. Move, adjust your working methods, or form a consultancy.

I don't like it, I don't like paying tax at all really, but I accept it as a legal and moral duty and the more you earn the more you pay. Contracting has been good to me, I have paid a **** of a lot of tax over the years but it has bought me a house or two, put my kid through school and paid for my divorce (c:

Let's face it, this legislation is aimed at contractors working through an agency, and many of them really behave exactly the same as Permanent staff. There will be collateral damage for a few, but Govt is about taking as much as they can from as many as they can. Up to us to try and keep it fair

[d000hg]

If this actually happens, then I will be going direct to clients, or going permie.

Where's this quote from DP?

[SimonMac]

I don't think that having specialist skills is a good enough reason. A nurse has skills that I couldn't possibly hope to emulate.

Even with the exes thing I don't think you'd pay as much tax as the permanent if you take employer's and employee's NI into consideration. Now if the proposed change to assume that anyone who works via an agency is under control and supervision and therefore within IR35 happens then that will change, but this will drive contractors away, business will suffer and rates will have to accomodate that by increasing rates to pay for the flexibility of having contractors in the workplace. Supply and demand that is.

Do you think IT workers are they only people incorporated to be tax efficient? On these forums alone we have had social workers and doctors asking for advice.

If we can move to a system where contractors are the specialist consultants who can pay themselves in the way that they do rather than 2/3rd line support people or (sorry to say this to the code monkey friends I have) developers who are needed to fill a resource gap maybe this would be better.