Is this the end of National Insurance?

[TykeMerc]

It shows all sorts of other deductions too. And doesn't generally show Ers NI as a deduction.

It aint rocket science to work it of course.

Personally I think there should be a box along the lines of "Paid to HMRC" being Ee NI + Er NI + Income Tax + Class 1A NI on things like cars and medical.

Except that is a scary large number compared to a decent gross salary.

I've been surprised, almost shocked at how few permies even know of the existence of Employers NI, let alone what rate it's charged at or what it's charged on. As a stealth tax it's stupendously effective as people have no concept that it's something that they pay rather than something their "boss" pays so when it's mentioned in the press it's ignored.

I can see the appeal of binning NI, but will they really do away with something they can change and claim "no increase to Income Tax"? It feels unlikely, plus there's going to be a hefty admin and IT cost to implementing the change, I'm sure they will sell that as a cost saving measure though.

[d000hg]

It does effectively. The cost vs. benefit decision your employer makes on whether to give you a job has to include Employer's NI, so potentially we could all be paid more if it wasn't for Employer's NI.

My point was, you don't see it as a deduction from what your salary is Vs what you take home. There are all kinds of costs to an employee and Employers' NI is just one of them. In the greater scheme of things of course you're right, but from the mindset of a permie, who doesn't care about what they cost their employer, I disagree

Corporation Tax is a silly tax. They should get rid of it and just tax dividends as normal shareholders' income (though you'd have to do something different for overseas shareholders I guess). This would have the advantage of encouraging businesses to build up funds ensuring better stability; investing more, and best of all would put half of the accountancy profession out of work. Win win, unless you're an accountant.

One advantage of CT (maybe) is that it benefits companies who distribute more profit to employees i.e. pay great salaries. Or is that a dumb argument?

[AtW]

If they get rid of NI then it’s easier to make the NHS “pay per use” as the logic of I pay insurance for that is no longer valid.

Or am I being paranoid?

That would be really stupid.

Much better (for them) to continue to collect NI and make NHS pay per use.

[AtW]

Your dividend voucher shows a big number at the top

FTFY

[AtW]

Employer's NI isn't relevant - it doesn't come out of the salary you receive.

You are, Sir, a true

[d000hg]

You are, Sir, a true

From the point of view of an employee, I am right. A typical employee has absolutely zero idea how much NI their employer has to pay, they only care about their salary and how much of it they get to keep.

[unixman]

I'm hugely in favour of the income tax/NI merge which was actually promised in 2010. NI is so complex that most people don't know how much they pay, in what class, or why. Governments have used NI as an entire stealth ecosystem to bury taxes in. And of course NI is the natural enemy of the contractor, who must pay 2 sets of it (umbrella) or none (Ltd/dividends).

Throw out this rats nest and replace it with a nice tidy cupboard. And the same goes for the rest of the labyrinthine tax laws that give huge avoidance to the big boys, while fining the little people £100 if they so much as send a form in late.

[SueEllen]

I'm hugely in favour of the income tax/NI merge which was actually promised in 2010. NI is so complex that most people don't know how much they pay, in what class, or why. Governments have used NI as an entire stealth ecosystem to bury taxes in. And of course NI is the natural enemy of the contractor, who must pay 2 sets of it (umbrella) or none (Ltd/dividends).

Throw out this rats nest and replace it with a nice tidy cupboard. And the same goes for the rest of the labyrinthine tax laws that give huge avoidance to the big boys, while fining the little people £100 if they so much as send a form in late.

There is a whole industry around our complex tax laws.

If they were simplified like in a lots of countries over half the industry would have to find new jobs....

[AtW]

From the point of view of an employee, I am right. A typical employee has absolutely zero idea how much NI their employer has to pay, they only care about their salary and how much of it they get to keep.

You are correct from a point of view of a cretin who does not see the big picture and does not want to see it.

I hereby declare you the official CUK Cretin of the Year 2015.

Well done!

[d000hg]

You are correct from a point of view of a cretin who does not see the big picture and does not want to see it.

Like I said, employees.

When you were an employee, did you know/care about your employer's tax situation? Just because you now hire 2 employees at £17k a year, doesn't mean everyone else worries about your NI payments.