After Osbourne's attack on IT contractors

[Zero Liability]

Don't forget the lack of employment rights, permie benefits and other costs to the client associated with permies.

[d000hg]

Then why with every post, do you attempt to make it controversial?

We are all entitled to it! Soon we will not be.

We're legally entitled to it, people here are making out we're in some way morally entitled to it and that removing it is unfair. That's what irks me, that people earning shed-loads and paying less tax than people on comparable salaries are crying about being bullied by HMRC at things being evened out.

[d000hg]

Don't forget the lack of employment rights, permie benefits and other costs to the client associated with permies.

That's why we charge ~2X as much per day (or more?) in the first place.

Many contractors find working through an umbrella is still financially advantageous to being a permie in the same role, so all this crap about paying too much tax under the new setup is... well, crap.

You've just been spoiled by having it both ways for too long.

[expat]

4. we are not as rich as baby boomers

I am a so-called baby boomer, I am not any richer than anyone else here, and I take great exception to the lingering whinge from younger people to the effect that people of my generation have somehow taken more than they have put in.

We would need a separate thread for this, but just by way of having a go at one example I have often heard: we do not have "gold-plated pensions". Some people did get DB pensions, because employers offered them. We boomers did not go and seize them. And of course I don't have one, because I am a contractor.

Nor do we have inflated state pensions that we did not pay for. All we did was pay in over our whole working lives for the state pensions of our parents' generation, who themselves had not paid in because the pensions were not there yet. We could have paid for our own pensions and let our parents rot, but we thought that was a social contract between the generations so we paid for them; now we find that the next generation wants to back out of that. Well fine, but don't accuse us of being selfish: we paid our dues and now you don't want to - it is you who are being selfish there.


I'll do house prices too if anyone's listening.....

[PurpleGorilla]

We're legally entitled to it, people here are making out we're in some way morally entitled to it and that removing it is unfair. That's what irks me, that people earning shed-loads and paying less tax than people on comparable salaries are crying about being bullied by HMRC at things being evened out.

What irks me is universal pensioner benefits and triple locks. Why should a retired banker in Surrey, living in a mansion, get a free bus pass and heating allowance.

I am happy to pay a bit more tax to make my contribution; but wealthy pensioners must also pay, much much more.

[expat]

What irks me is universal pensioner benefits and triple locks. Why should a retired banker in Surrey, living in a mansion, get a free bus pass and heating allowance.

I am happy to pay a bit more tax to make my contribution; but wealthy pensioners must also pay, much much more.

THey do pay taxes. And I do wonder how much could be saved by not letting retired bankers in Surrey ride on the buses for free?

None I suspect but it would satisfy your spite. Maybe you could be chancellor when you grow up.

[tractor]

...

We're legally entitled to it, people here are making out we're in some way morally entitled to it and that removing it is unfair. That's what irks me, that people earning shed-loads and paying less tax than people on comparable salaries are crying about being bullied by HMRC at things being evened out.

I haven't seen anyone crying about the morality or lack of except you.

We do not pay less tax than permies, we pay exactly the same band for band. Dividend income (up to a point) is not taxed again upon distribution. That is the element that you so stubbornly refuse to accept when you lump total income for each class and compare perms with contractors.

Your refusal to accept this simple basic fact leads me to believe you are just trolling.

You know what my biggest complaint about this is? I can live with paying 2k extra tax per year.

My biggest complaint is that Osborne cited the current regime as complex, then introduced a completely new tax, with 3 different bands and associated regulations ostensibly to fix it, and actually got away with it because of people like you. This was akin to Labour disguising IR35 within the Welfare Reform Bill and having it passed because people wanted to do right by the disabled. Disgusting and blatant manipulation.

[suityou01]

Tyke, you're just deluded if you don't think you are in a favourable tax position pound-for-pound with a salaried worker earning the same gross as your Ltd bills.

You charge a premium for the nature of the service you provide, which covers the risk and the benefit to the client. You do not somehow deserve a tax benefit on top of that for being some sort of white knight to the economy.

Get over yourself.

TykeTwerp is a deluded, holier than thou, tulip don't stink, ivory tower dwelling, God complexed, tedious little man.

As such it's really not worth giving him the time of day, let alone getting into a debate with him.

Also don't think this is some crusade against contractors. That credits GO actually did this with some kind of joined up thinking. I doubt it. It was most likely just a cash grab to try and fund some of their vote winning policies.

[PurpleGorilla]

I am a so-called baby boomer, I am not any richer than anyone else here, and I take great exception to the lingering whinge from younger people to the effect that people of my generation have somehow taken more than they have put in.

We would need a separate thread for this, but just by way of having a go at one example I have often heard: we do not have "gold-plated pensions". Some people did get DB pensions, because employers offered them. We boomers did not go and seize them. And of course I don't have one, because I am a contractor.

Nor do we have inflated state pensions that we did not pay for. All we did was pay in over our whole working lives for the state pensions of our parents' generation, who themselves had not paid in because the pensions were not there yet. We could have paid for our own pensions and let our parents rot, but we thought that was a social contract between the generations so we paid for them; now we find that the next generation wants to back out of that. Well fine, but don't accuse us of being selfish: we paid our dues and now you don't want to - it is you who are being selfish there.


I'll do house prices too if anyone's listening.....

I'm listening. I said boomers were wealthy, not selfish; and by implication should be paying more. If the country is so wonderful now the boomers have had their fill; why is it so economically in the tulip? Why should the young, who's outlook looks very much worse than their parents be responsible for mummy and daddies credit card bill?

[yasockie]

1. We are not as rich as politicians
2. we are not as rich as bankers
3. we are not as rich as agents

From what I've seen politicians, agents and lawyers operate through Ltd and LLCs as well so the new rules will also apply to them