After Osbourne's attack on IT contractors

[tractor]

....

Bollox. I claim anything and everything I can for my disabled kids.

Though I might not bother if it was not for the governments disgraceful behaviour on retrospective legislation. Or the family courts.

The problem is that over decades we have all fallen for the welfare state scam, perpetuated and manipulated by shameless governments and some equally shameless beneficiaries.

Either we are a welfare state or we are not. If we are, we (governments) need to ensure that people who need help get it. It is inarguable that people who are not in financial need either reduce the amount available for those who are or put up the welfare bill unnecessarily, leading to higher taxation, which rarely gets reduced, just spend on other stuff.

Unfortunately, most governments of all flavours only ensure that their friends get the help that they need at the expense of the rest of us.

I don't blame you for claiming everything that you are entitled to, but if you were a millionaire and my tax doubled because of it, I would be annoyed. What is wrong with that?

[tractor]

...

I would have agreed with the means testing if it was something easy like this - if you got £1 mln+ in liquid assets (cash, shares) then fook off until you have below £1 mln. But we all know that number of such people is non existent and they ain't going to be claiming benefits, so the real deal behind "means testing" is to cut off a lot of normal people who might have saved £10k in bank account, which is fooking nothing given cost of living, how come they ain't entitled to benefits they PAID FOR???

U mad bro?

Your car insurance analogy is ridiculous.

The means test for what you are talking about above is 16k.

You don't pay for benefits. The concept of the welfare state is that you pay in when you can 'in case' you need help in the future. It is not a savings plan. Equally, if you are a pensioner sat in a 5 bed 500k home with no dependants and a modest pension, I don't think you should not be entitled to fuel allowance.

You should stick to lunchtime posts.

Oh and just because scummy little Eton tuck shop prefects poison the concept and manipulate it to their advantage is not my fault or yours, but you should take it up with your MP.

[AtW]

Your car insurance analogy is ridiculous.

Why is that? I pay National Insurance contributions, that should make me eligible for any benefits linked to the insurance events that may happen regardless of how much money I've got in bank - same for pensions or anything linked to pensioner benefits.

Fairness is equal treatment.

Oh and just because scummy little Eton tuck shop prefects poison the concept and manipulate it to their advantage is not my fault or yours, but you should take it up with your MP.

I will (she is Labour MP with fairly small majority). I'll say how sorry I am to have voted Tory Scum. And will give her sizeable donation for next elections to make sure she keeps her seat. Might actually consider doing it in a few other marginals to get even with Georgie.

[Zero Liability]

The only thing is, NI is hardly ring-fenced to fund the spending items it is meant to. It's an insurance in nothing but name, and is really just another tax notionally intended for spending on items notionally intended as a safety net, and more besides. With regards to means testing what I do wonder is how much it actually saves vs how much is spent on it.

[tractor]

...

The only thing is, NI is hardly ring-fenced to fund the spending items it is meant to. It's an insurance in nothing but name, and is really just another tax notionally intended for spending on items notionally intended as a safety net, and more besides. With regards to means testing what I do wonder is how much it actually saves vs how much is spent on it.

The problem with not having it though is that you give everything to everyone who asks for it which is unsustainable and got us to where we are now, subsidising big employers for decades and the middle income earners paying for it all, now the pot is empty (and has been for years) so everyonesome of us will pay more and more of us will get less.

[PurpleGorilla]

Could you please explain this "paid the tab for your parents credit card binge" for me? I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

This Tab:

Debt monster (£) - Highcharts Cloud

[Whorty]

You are one very odd IT contractor. I suspect you are a paid-up perma-temp under IR35, probably making up the difference by grassing up real contractors to HMR&C and receiving a bounty.

I thought I was the only one doing that

As for the original Q. As a permie I would get a salary of 60-70k plus benefits. As a contractor I get 550+ Even if I end up paying the same % tax as a permie I'd still be quids in as the contractor rate always equates to more than a perm salary. So what's to complain about?

[Zero Liability]

The problem with not having it though is that you give everything to everyone who asks for it which is unsustainable and got us to where we are now, subsidising big employers for decades and the middle income earners paying for it all, now the pot is empty (and has been for years) so everyonesome of us will pay more and more of us will get less.

It goes hand in hand with the complexity of the system, I guess. Scrapping it all in favour of a basic income guarantee does seem appealing. I think means testing is very much a case of projected savings vs costs. If it saves more than it costs, do it. I can't see how third parties like Atos, Avanta etc. have accomplished that at present. If anything, they've added to the number of snouts at the welfare trough.

[SlipTheJab]

I am off the end of this tax yr, mortgage will be paid off so a nice easy role stacking shelves at tesco beckons, will be claiming everything under the sun obviously :-)

[Dactylion]

The mods are not what they used to be. I pine for Scotspine.

Scotty was OK but I miss Ferret.