UK referendum - EU membership

[DodgyAgent]

Name me one law from the mythical European super state that has significantly impacted on you that has been opposed by the democratically elected government of the UK.

Free movement of labour across the EU

[d000hg]

Free movement of labour across the EU

I think he meant that has impacted you negatively.

[unixman]

The European Commission is appointed by the European Council which is made up of the democratically elected leaders of the member states, and then approved by the democratically elected European Parliament. Democracy doesn't mean anybody with any power must be directly elected; democracy means anybody with any power is appointed by or answerable to somebody democratically elected.

No lack of democracy in the EU.

I didn't say there was no democracy in the EU, only that there is a democratic deficit, ie. the EU is less democratic than a nation state. This isn't my idea by the way, it is generally accepted by EU critics and supporters alike, is well documented, and Google is your friend.

If the Burmese Junta elects a general as their leader, this does not mean that Burma is "democratic" in any recognizable way. Because traces of democracy are found within EU bodies does not mean that the EU as a whole is sufficiently democratic to be considered "democratic". Argue all night about how much democracy qualifies, but the acid test is always - can you remove the supreme leader at the next election ? "Yes" for all democratic nation states. "No" for the EU.

I like my democracy of the open, fully qualified, nation state variety. And I hope Europe will embrace that model at some future date.

[unixman]

democracy means anybody with any power is appointed by or answerable to somebody democratically elected.

No. Democracy in any recognizable sense is the ability to remove the supreme leader at the next election. C*ck on the block.

[VectraMan]

If the Burmese Junta elects a general as their leader, this does not mean that Burma is "democratic" in any recognizable way. Because traces of democracy are found within EU bodies does not mean that the EU as a whole is sufficiently democratic to be considered "democratic". Argue all night about how much democracy qualifies, but the acid test is always - can you remove the supreme leader at the next election ? "Yes" for all democratic nation states. "No" for the EU.

That's splitting hairs. Who is the "Supreme Leader?" - Juncker I suppose you'd say, but it's not like he rules the EU. He's only there with the backing of the national leaders AND the MEPs who are democratically elected, and okay you can't remove him directly, but you can remove the people that support him which amounts to the same thing. Would you be happy if we had an election for EU President?

The UK is governed by The Cabinet, and it's David Cameron not us that gets to choose who gets a position. Usually they're MPs, but they don't have to be, and nobody voting for an MP is voting to make them Home Secretary or whatever. And unlike the EU the people making the decisions don't have to be approved by parliament. And at least twice in my lifetime the "supreme leader" of the UK has been replaced without consulting the electorate or parliament.

So how is the UK more democratic than the EU?

[DodgyAgent]

I think he meant that has impacted you negatively.

It has. I do not deal with non UK "competitor" workers

[d000hg]

It has. I do not deal with non UK "competitor" workers

You PM'ed me some years back offering to supply me with workers from E. Europe.

[DodgyAgent]

You PM'ed me some years back offering to supply me with workers from E. Europe.

That fell by the way side

[BrilloPad]

You PM'ed me some years back offering to supply me with workers from E. Europe.

Child slave labour?

[Zero Liability]

Child slave labour?

Still too expensive.