Renewables don't work

[VectraMan]

Going to PV is a big mistake imho. Much better to use solar water heating (pre heating).
There is much less to go wrong, no subsidies required and it's a proven technology.

2015 and we're still talking about the steam engine as being the future. You may be right of course.

If it's centralised you need the distribution network, and if people are to stop burning gas to heat their homes and putting fossil fuels in their cars, then The National Grid as it stands will be woefully inadequate and will require massive investment. And if we're seriously talking about power being generated in Africa for all of Europe, then the scale and investment required is easily going to be "beyond astronomical" , and that's before we consider how the power is going to be generated.

Local power for local people surely is the way, even if it isn't as efficient.

[minestrone]

My neighbour works in a refinery in Algeria, there are more people outside the camp with guns guarding them than there are workers inside.

Not a chance that area will ever be able to be used for anything like solar power and will never be.

[TykeMerc]

I agree that without monumental investment in R&D the future of renewables is no better than the current state and outside of the hydro generation in a few bits of the world that state is utterly pathetic, inadequate and effectively just decorative.

I would love there to be effective renewables, but the technology simply doesn't exist yet or it will never be even carbon neutral, nor is there the political will to take on the engineering projects that would be needed to implement the technology.

Talking of setting up massive solar generation in a part of the planet where there's large scale warfare, civil unrest and terrorism is complete cloud cuckoo land stuff, not forgetting the "interesting" challenge of getting the power where it's needed.

[d000hg]

No, course not, they're lucky in having enough shallow, windy seas to make offshore wind viable. But they are a good example of a country having the foresight to grasp that opportunity and make the necessary investment.

They're a special case, like Scotland (hyrdo, no people) or Iceland (geothermal), it's not something that makes sense generally.

The world's deserts receive more solar energy in six hours than the world uses in a year, 90% of the world’s population lives within 3,000 km of one of those deserts. An HVDC smart grid linking solar in N. Africa, geothermal in Iceland, hydro in Scandanavia, wind N. Europe would be expensive, but technically feasible, what is lacking is political will.

So instead of us being held to ransom by Russian oil pipelines, you want African nations controlling the developed world's energy supplies?

However, if countries which do have all the sun went to solar, it would make a big difference even if colder countries continued using oil.

[minestrone]

I just can't see any decent amount of hydro ever coming from Scotland, they have been saying 'in the next 5 years' for the last 25 years. Clearly nobody can solve the problem other than small scale.

You also have to add into the mix the SNP who exaggerate beyond belief every report into the capabilities of green energy in Scotland. Thankfully I will have left by the time they have to turn the nuclear plants off.

[EternalOptimist]

For most houses, that's spot on.

That might sound like some sort of common ground. but it isn't.
let me explain why.....

EO's policy.
Come and buy a lovely cheap water heating kit. going cheap. buy 2 get a third one free.
it will pay for itself in x years.


pj's policy.
We will be sending engineers round to fit your compulsory water heating unit. These units are mandatory in order to save the planet from evil fossil fuels. Despite what the filthy deniers say, the sea will rise and drown us all if we dont fit these and take other appropriate measure of which we will inform you soon.
Electricity prices will neccessarly skyrocket to pay for this, and the massive new beaurocracy we have set up to manage and monitor the implementation. Failure to comply will be met with derision followed by fines then a jail term. The death penalty will only be used sparingly and then only on people we hate more than ourselves (and there are not many of THOSE around). In the meantime, enjoy yourself by helping your child to do his homework, particularly 'how the greens supported DDT against the evil petro chemimical military complex'. 'How nasa put a man on the moon by using models and linear thinking'
'How to google graphs and links to avoid thinking for yourself'. 'How to avoid a bad back when shifting heavy weights like goalposts'

[pjclarke]

That creative writing course is really paying dividends. Keep it up.

[shaunbhoy]

Let's stop pussyfooting around and get some Nuclear powered plants built PDQ.

Clean and safe, you know it makes sense.

[VectraMan]

In 50 years time we'll have fusion, and then we'll have so much cheap power we'll be able to convert the CO2 back into hydrocarbons and bury it under the sea.

[OwlHoot]

And it still doesn't work at night.

Is huge centralised generation really the best way? There's a lot of rooves in the UK that are essentially doing nothing. If near enough every house and office had solar panels the power would be used locally and you wouldn't need the massive investment in power lines.

WHS up to a point (apart from spelling of roofs)

I used to think a few nuclear plants would be the best solution. (Nuclear waste will doubtless be among the least of our descendents' problems.)

But the World ain't getting any safer, quite the reverse, and big power stations (nuclear or not) are pitifully vulnerable to even non-nuclear attacks.

Knock out the main power stations and sea ports in this country, and half or more of the population would probably be dead in six months!