More scientists stating the obvious

[DodgyAgent]

The 'obvious' is frequently wrong. Population growth is an issue, however in terms of environmental damage, consumption growth is a larger one,. Birth rates are dropping, the UN estimates the population will peak in 2200, at a level 50% higher than today. But steady economic growth of 3% a year, as we have now and seen almost universally as ' a good thing' , leads to a doubling of economic activity every 23 years, or 1,134% by 2100, getting to over 1,800% by 2115.

Of course this won't happen, but it puts into perspective the relative threat from rising people numbers and rising consumption.

Talk about the bleeding obvious. Of course consumption growth will increase as the population grows.

[BlasterBates]

Green policies are a major threat to biodiversity:

https://www.rainforest-rescue.org/topics/biofuel

[pjclarke]

Green policies are a major threat to biodiversity:

https://www.rainforest-rescue.org/topics/biofuel

They're not green then are they? Sign here:

The European Union wants to protect the climate and reduce carbon emissions from motor vehicles by blending fuels with increasing shares of supposedly eco-friendly “biofuels”.

Last year, 1.9 million tons of palm oil were added to diesel fuel in the EU – in addition to millions of tons of equally harmful rapeseed and soybean oils.

The plantations needed to satisfy Europes's demand for palm oil cover an area of 700,000 hectares – land that until recently was still rainforest and the habitat of 5,000 endangered orangutans. Despite the clear-cutting, the EU has classified palm oil as sustainably produced.

This policy has now blown up in the legislators’ faces, with scientists confirming what environmentalists and development experts have long asserted: biofuels help neither people nor the environment – and they are most certainly not climate-neutral, as even studies commissioned by the EU show. Biodiesel from palm and soybean oil, but also from European-grown rapeseed, has a larger carbon footprint than diesel from fossil sources.

The EU must scrap its biofuels policy immediately, but the agri-industry is fighting hard to maintain the status quo. Not surprising, when one considers that biofuels are currently subsidized to the tune of 10 billion euros in the EU alone.

Decision making in the European Union is a long process and involves many different actors that bring in studies, reports, arguments, and numbers. Hundreds of industry lobbyists seek to influence this process and they are trying hard to protect their financial interests. Next, the European Parliament and its committees along with the Council of the European Union will need to agree on a compromise based on the proposal published in October 2012.

Please sign our petition to the EU and demand an end to biofuels.

Glad to see you're catching up with genuinely green thinking from the last decade.

CC219 In line with party policy on applying the precautionary principle, the Green Party calls for an immediate moratorium on agrofuels from large-scale monocultures - a period for scientists and policy makers in the EU and western nations to gain a greater understanding of the true impacts on the social, human rights, land rights, climate impact, and biodiversity impact issues. The Green Party supports the Agrofuels Moratorium Call launched in July 2007 in Brussels (supported by over 100 organisations in its first week).Agrofuels is the term coined to describe liquid fuels from biomass, which consists of crops and trees grown specifically for that purpose on a large-scale.

Policy adopted 2007.

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archiv...hive/3160.html

Feeding Cars, Not People | George Monbiot (a mere 11 years ago)
Worse Than Fossil Fuel | George Monbiot
An Agricultural Crime Against Humanity | George Monbiot

[BlasterBates]

They're not green then are they? Sign here:



Glad to see you're catching up with genuinely green thinking from the last decade.



Policy adopted 2007.

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archiv...hive/3160.html

Feeding Cars, Not People | George Monbiot (a mere 11 years ago)
Worse Than Fossil Fuel | George Monbiot
An Agricultural Crime Against Humanity | George Monbiot

Green policies are very similar to communist policies.

Communism doesn't work because it is fundamentally flawed, so too are green policies.

The only way European countries such as the UK or Germany can achieve their ambitious CO2 emission goals is through wholescale deforestation.

The only way you would stop this, is if environmentalists would push for fossil fuel rather than deforestation. But they don't. Do they march into the Amazon rain forest to stop it ? ...no they're too busy protesting against fossil fuels.

Until that happens watch the forests disappear.

[DodgyAgent]

Green policies are very similar to communist policies.

Communism doesn't work because it is fundamentally flawed, so too are green policies.

The only way European countries such as the UK or Germany can achieve their ambitious CO2 emission goals is through wholescale deforestation.

The only way you would stop this, is if environmentalists would push for fossil fuel rather than deforestation. But they don't. Do they march into the Amazon rain forest to stop it ? ...no they're too busy protesting against fossil fuels.

Until that happens watch the forests disappear.

Indeed, the left have hijacked climate change as a means to exert collectivist policies and control on the rest of us.

[BrilloPad]

Indeed, the left have hijacked climate change as a means to exert collectivist policies and control on the rest of us.

The right are no better. High house prices causing wage slaves for the young.

Scientists do the same thing.

I am starting to wonder if churches are the best of the bunch. Despite their many faults.

[pjclarke]

Until that happens watch the forests disappear.

Yes! We should burn more coal, oil and gas to hit our emissions targets. Got that.

Sorry to insert a few facts into the heated and hateful rhetoric, but here are a few:

1. The trend in contributions to CO2 emissions from deforestation have steadily reduced since the 1990s. 6,4 Gigatonnes (27% of the total) then, around 5.4 Gt (21%) in 2010. Why any nation would want to reverse this trend is mysterious, indeed for those who have signed up to REDD it would be disastrous.

2. The vast bulk of deforestation is logging for paper or to clear land for other crops, notably palm oil. A tiny fraction is for biofuels.

3. Environmentalists oppose and campaign against unsustainable forestry and 1st and 2nd generation biofuels, and have done so for some time.

[DodgyAgent]

The right are no better. High house prices causing wage slaves for the young.

Scientists do the same thing.

I am starting to wonder if churches are the best of the bunch. Despite their many faults.

What has high house prices got to do with climate change? Or is it that another "implied" consequence of yours

[BlasterBates]

A tiny fraction is for biofuels.

...oh yes tiny

Estimates are that the UK alone will burn pellets made from 82 million tonnes of wood, eight times the country’s total domestic wood production

Recent investigations revealed that pellet producers supplying European demand were rampantly escalating deforestation and biodiversity destruction. In the Southeast US, pellets are being sourced from rare Atlantic coastal wetland forests,

Wood Bioenergy: Green Land Grabs for Renewable Energy

I think tiny is not the word I would use. I think the term "deforestation on a massive scale" would be more appropriate.

Most environmentalists are playing this down, as they prefer mass scale deforestation to burning fossil fuels.

[BrilloPad]

Indeed, the left have hijacked climate change as a means to exert collectivist policies and control on the rest of us.

What has high house prices got to do with climate change? Or is it that another "implied" consequence of yours

Just pointing out its not just the left that "exert collectivist policies and control on the rest of us".

Since when has a CUK thread remained on track?