Agent asking for NI number before next payment

[FiveTimes]

So is it just the NI number that is required - my agency is asking for both

[PerfectStorm]

The QDOS advice seems to suggest we shouldn't be submitting it: Agency Legislation Reporting Requirements and IR35

Whilst ContractorUK seems to suggest that we should and not worry about it, and that by withholding it we're likely to make our lives more difficult: How intermediary reporting requirements hit limited company contractors :: Contractor UK

Who's right?

[Paddy]

The QDOS advice seems to suggest we shouldn't be submitting it: Agency Legislation Reporting Requirements and IR35

Whilst ContractorUK seems to suggest that we should and not worry about it, and that by withholding it we're likely to make our lives more difficult: How intermediary reporting requirements hit limited company contractors :: Contractor UK

Who's right?

Neither are right. The key word in the regulation is "worker". We are not workers and the reporting does not apply. The legal definition of “Worker” is defined in the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 as ‘within the meaning of Article 39 of the Treaty establishing the European Community’. This suggests that a worker is a person who is employed, actually or potentially, under a contract of employment and is not a self-employed person. The European Court of Justice, in Lawrie-Blum [1986] ECR 2121, stated that the essential point is that the person provides services during a given time for and under the direction of another in return for remuneration.

However, the agents are going to play it safe and report everything, after all; it won't be them who are caught by IR35.

Reporting will have wider ramifications because once and agent reports you, you will be deemed to be a "worker" and hence IR35 will apply.

[mudskipper]

IPSE's take

https://www.ipse.co.uk/guides/new-re...ments-agencies

[PerfectStorm]

IPSE's take

https://www.ipse.co.uk/guides/new-re...ments-agencies

Thanks. Summary of that seems to be "we're not happy, but you probably should go along with it" as well then?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Neither are right. The key word in the regulation is "worker". We are not workers and the reporting does not apply. The legal definition of “Worker” is defined in the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 as ‘within the meaning of Article 39 of the Treaty establishing the European Community’. This suggests that a worker is a person who is employed, actually or potentially, under a contract of employment and is not a self-employed person. The European Court of Justice, in Lawrie-Blum [1986] ECR 2121, stated that the essential point is that the person provides services during a given time for and under the direction of another in return for remuneration.

However, the agents are going to play it safe and report everything, after all; it won't be them who are caught by IR35.

Reporting will have wider ramifications because once and agent reports you, you will be deemed to be a "worker" and hence IR35 will apply.

Sorry but HMRC are quite clear that it does apply to PSC's:

From here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...vice-companies

You must select the reason why you didn’t operate PAYE on the workers payments from these options:

A: Self-employed
B: Partnership
C: Limited liability partnership
D: Limited company including personal service companies
E: Non-UK engagement
F: Another party operated PAYE on the worker’s payments
If more than one reason applies select the option that comes first on the list. For example, if A and E both apply, select A.

You should also include the:

worker’s unique taxpayer reference - if they are self-employed or a member of a partnership
start date of work with client
end date of work with client - if there is one
The start date is the first date that a worker provides their personal services to a client for which they are paid.

The end date is the last date that a worker provides their services to a client for which they are paid.

Where the worker’s services are provided on different occasions to a single client in a reporting period the payments should be combined into a single figure.

Where the worker’s services are provided on different occasions to more than one client in a reporting period, you can either:

combine the engagements into a single record with a single payment
provide a separate line and payment for each client
If a bureau is used to pay another party on the worker’s behalf the name of the company or partnership should be reported, not the bureau.

If the worker was engaged to do the work and their payments have not been reported to HMRC using RTI, any worker engaged through options A to E, you must also include:

total amount paid for the worker’s services - this is the total payment that you contracted for the worker’s services including any expenses and VAT
currency - this must be given in Great British pounds (GBP) or euros (EUR) and if the worker was paid in another currency it should be converted into Great British pounds or euros using HMRC exchange rates
whether or not VAT has been charged on the payment
the full name or trading name and address of who the intermediary paid for the worker’s services - this may be the worker’s company or partnership
Companies House registration number - only if the worker was engaged to do the work through a limited company (option D)
You may not know how much money the worker actually gets, but you will know how much money you paid to whoever supplied the worker to you. This may be another intermediary, limited company or PSC, or the worker themselves.

For example, you have a contract with a client to supply 10 workers for £1,000. You supply:

5 workers yourself who you pay £100 each - 2 are your own employees you pay using PAYE and you report their payments on your RTI submission
5 workers from another intermediary who you pay £450 (£90 for each worker) and PAYE is operated by someone else
Your report to HMRC will include:

3 workers you supplied who weren’t your employees who were paid £100 each
5 workers from the other intermediary who were paid £90 each

[eek]

I love how people always fail to see the other side:-

The problem this is designed to solve for HMRC is agencies are paying people by dodgy means...

So they ask agencies to report how they pay all the people who work through them... We are people and work through them so they have to report the amount of money they pay us...

If you don't like it there are really only 3 options:-

1. Go perm
2. Go direct
3. Move up the food chain and become a proper consultancy

[SantaClaus]

Looks like the "beginning of the end" of Limited company contracting to me.

[Ticktock]

Looks like the "beginning of the end" of Limited company contracting to me.

Yes, we should all abandon our Ltds and find scheme providers who can promise us 95%+ retention instead.

I'm glad we have people who have demonstrated such fantastic good judgement in the past to advise us for the future.

[stek]

Looks like the "beginning of the end" of Limited company contracting to me.

Err, right lol!