So...anybody ask for any of this?

[jamesbrown]

I have to agree and all joking aside, to be fair to Mal, I think he is being very loyal (and quite brave, if I am honest) and where he cannot answer a question, often it is because the executive either won't allow him to or won't give even the CC that level of detail.

And that is even more worrying.

Yes, absolutely.

[GlenW]

If an FLC is going to be outside IR35, then there must be a mechanism for replacing that lost revenue. And the easiest way to do that is to force people into an FLC and then remove the ability to pay dividends.

You get the limited liability, the government gets the money, IPSE gets the members, existing limited contractors get shafted.

But this is all just hysterical speculation - IPSE will save the day

Oh dear! Unfortunately I agree with this post.

[eek]

If an FLC is going to be outside IR35, then there must be a mechanism for replacing that lost revenue. And the easiest way to do that is to force people into an FLC and then remove the ability to pay dividends.

You get the limited liability, the government gets the money, IPSE gets the members, existing limited contractors get shafted.

But this is all just hysterical speculation - IPSE will save the day

Yep. FLC will be exempt Employers NI but all income will be subject to income tax (that's a guess as I only know about the agency reporting changes).

[eek]

Oh, and what's also laughable is that an FLC appears to be an argument for a particular type of tax structure (details unknown) at a time when tax receipts are woefully short and there's enormous scrutiny on corporate tax structures in general and PSCs specifically. I assume they're arguing that it's better to fudge something together that might be bought by HMG than have something imposed (IIRC, Mal made an argument along these lines), but the reality is that, were it to be adopted, it would assume a life of its own, regardless of how well-meaning the proposal might be.

Why do you get this idea the idea comes from IPSE. My inkling is that it comes from somewhere within HMG passed to a couple of academics who have pushed it to the Labour party and IPSE as a solution to the problem of freelancers.

It won't do that but hey ho...

[malvolio]

Why do you get this idea the idea comes from IPSE. My inkling is that it comes from somewhere within HMG passed to a couple of academics who have pushed it to the Labour party and IPSE as a solution to the problem of freelancers.

It won't do that but hey ho...

Citation required...

[tractor]

...

Citation required...

To be fair Mal, he was explicit in that it was an 'inkling'

It is almost impossible to cite a suspicion but Eek did have a plausible point to make.

[eek]

To be fair Mal, he was explicit in that it was an 'inkling'

It is almost impossible to cite a suspicion but Eek did have a plausible point to make.

Yep its an inkling as there is a gap in my knowledge. I know what HMRC are doing on one side of the equation and there is an FLC or duck shaped gap there.

Then on the other side there is a new business entity being proposed that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It also looks exactly like the duck shaped gap in HMRC's scheme above....

So my inkling is that FLC has come from within the government. As it fits the other jigsaw so well its clear HMRC have been plotting something for a while as the HMRC plans I reference above have been in progress for a couple of years...

And no I don't have documentation. Just because someone is kind / stupid enough to mention things in a pub doesn't mean that I want to screw him under the official secrets act.

Edit

Which is why I was polite enough to PM my concerns to Malvolio when I first heard about them. But as always you thought you had the complete picture....

[TykeMerc]

Yep its an inkling as there is a gap in my knowledge. I know what HMRC are doing on one side of the equation and there is an FLC or duck shaped gap there.

Then on the other side there is a new business entity being proposed that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It also looks exactly like the duck shaped gap in HMRC's scheme above....

So my inkling is that FLC has come from within the government. As it fits the other jigsaw so well its clear HMRC have been plotting something for a while as the HMRC plans I reference above have been in progress for a couple of years...

And no I don't have documentation. Just because someone is kind / stupid enough to mention things in a pub doesn't mean that I want to screw him under the official secrets act.

Edit

Which is why I was polite enough to PM my concerns to Malvolio when I first heard about them. But as always you thought you had the complete picture....

Not surprised by a word of that. Pretty appalled that there's such strong support for the duck being so duck shaped by IPSE who appear happy to teach it to quack too.
This is clearly a case of expectations being met to me.

[original PM]

my only concern (despite a bit of Mal bashing) is why the secrecy?

If it is genuinely of value to contractors then putting full info and details on here would surely be a way to drive membership to PCG/IPSE.

The fact that real facts are not forthcoming is enough to ring the alarm bells.

Only time will tell

[malvolio]

my only concern (despite a bit of Mal bashing) is why the secrecy?

If it is genuinely of value to contractors then putting full info and details on here would surely be a way to drive membership to PCG/IPSE.

The fact that real facts are not forthcoming is enough to ring the alarm bells.

Only time will tell

Perhaps the full details haven't been decided yet of course...

Just a thought.