Confused Britain

[vetran]

So not with democracy, then. Thanks for clearing that.

we tried polite negotiation.

BBC News - EU freedom of movement rules cannot be changed - Juncker

they told us to go forth.

We have to apply pressure, the only weapons we have is threatening to contribute less or leave.


Brinkmanship is an established practice in politics.

brinkmanship - definition of brinkmanship by The Free Dictionary

the worst that can happen is that the EU say no and we have to call their bluff. Its not like we have sent a gunboat.

[expat]

Actually the British monarch has the constitutional title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England, so if you accept the Queen as the head of state, then the clergy is yours. They are not elected though.

Not true. She is also head of state of Australia, but that doesn't make me an Aussie.

[vetran]

If the UK and a few other countries encouraged a country France and Germany didn't like into trying to get EU membership we would get this system.

possibly, or would they wave them through to the UK like they do at Sangatte? Whilst secretly discriminating against the joining country.

[SueEllen]

possibly, or would they wave them through to the UK like they do at Sangatte? Whilst secretly discriminating against the joining country.

What the French do isn't secret.

[vetran]

What the French do isn't secret.

it is however against the rules or at least the spirit of the rules.

If you mean the delaying the Accession countries early entry they do far more than that secretly.

[darmstadt]

we tried polite negotiation.

BBC News - EU freedom of movement rules cannot be changed - Juncker

they told us to go forth.

We have to apply pressure, the only weapons we have is threatening to contribute less or leave.

Wrong. All he is replying to is the junk that has been reported in the press. Cameron hasn't yet put any proposals to the EU so they haven't been rejected yet and as no-one actually knows what these proposals may contain then anything that is currently reported in the press is pure speculation and crap but feel free to continue posting hypothetical and nonsense news.

[petergriffin]

Wrong. All he is replying to is the junk that has been reported in the press. Cameron hasn't yet put any proposals to the EU so they haven't been rejected yet and as no-one actually knows what these proposals may contain then anything that is currently reported in the press is pure speculation and crap but feel free to continue posting hypothetical and nonsense news.

To be fair to Camoron, he has a plan, but it won't work.

He's confident that at one time Germany, the Netherlands and Austria come with a proposal to cap immigration from poorer countries. If Germany put their weight in, Cameron would say: "You see, they are on our side".

But imagine the backlash Germany would get if they went through with this proposal, it would be effectively the end of the union. Do the Germans want the end of the union? Nein!

[vetran]

Wrong. All he is replying to is the junk that has been reported in the press. Cameron hasn't yet put any proposals to the EU so they haven't been rejected yet and as no-one actually knows what these proposals may contain then anything that is currently reported in the press is pure speculation and crap but feel free to continue posting hypothetical and nonsense news.

He has publicly taken a position in a negotiation, if he backs down he will risk losing face.

He could have said a number of non committal things or nothing. What he has done is publicly slammed the door in the other negotiators face.

It is not hypothetical if the BBC said 'we believe Mr Junker doesn't want to negotiate this that would be hypothetical, he said it therefore it is factual reporting. Its not nonsense because the EU President has stated clearly he has no wish to negotiate.

This chap here is an impersonator then?

BBC News - Juncker: EU freedom of movement "will not be changed"

As I said they have publicly denied there will be any major change in the rules of Freedom of movement.

Not sure which planet you are on?

[darmstadt]

He has publicly taken a position in a negotiation, if he backs down he will risk losing face.

He could have said a number of non committal things or nothing. What he has done is publicly slammed the door in the other negotiators face.

It is not hypothetical if the BBC said 'we believe Mr Junker doesn't want to negotiate this that would be hypothetical, he said it therefore it is factual reporting. Its not nonsense because the EU President has stated clearly he has no wish to negotiate.

This chap here is an impersonator then?

BBC News - Juncker: EU freedom of movement "will not be changed"

As I said they have publicly denied there will be any major change in the rules of Freedom of movement.

Not sure which planet you are on?

But: 'However he did say that there were abuses of the system and rules could be tightened to prevent these.' So he wouldn't lose face as that is the argument he would use if there were any caps on immigration but as you know, Juncker is not responsible for actually making the decision, it would have to be passed by other first so its a bit of scaremongering by the press. He also said that freedom of movement has been “a basic principle of the European Union since the very beginning and I’m not prepared to change this,” and is part of the EU makeup which means that the basic tenets of the EU would need to be changed. Once you start to change then others will want changes made, I think you'll find that he's just stating what is currently fact but that amendments can be made...

[vetran]

But: 'However he did say that there were abuses of the system and rules could be tightened to prevent these.' So he wouldn't lose face as that is the argument he would use if there were any caps on immigration but as you know, Juncker is not responsible for actually making the decision, it would have to be passed by other first so its a bit of scaremongering by the press. He also said that freedom of movement has been “a basic principle of the European Union since the very beginning and I’m not prepared to change this,” and is part of the EU makeup which means that the basic tenets of the EU would need to be changed. Once you start to change then others will want changes made, I think you'll find that he's just stating what is currently fact but that amendments can be made...

I wait with bated breath for his about face, but a wiser negotiator would have managed to say nothing that blocked avenues of negotiation.

Glad we have established he said it and meant it.