Scotland is the first country to vote against its own independence

[SpontaneousOrder]

The embarrassing thing is that even in the 21st century nationalists are able to win over a large chunk of the population and got close to winding back the clock 300 years. At least UKIP only want to go back to the 1950s.

There's a bit of a paradox in there. The opposite of nationalism would be individual sovereignty, and a smaller independent nation would be the first step on the path to that state.

it strikes me that one is more likely to be a nationalist if they prefer not to wind the clock back 300 years.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I agree; that's why it should have been open to all residents of the UK, as per my sentence above the one you quoted.

That would have saved William Wallace the bother of getting is heed chopped off. If he'd have known that it was proper for the English got to decide if they should be free or not, I'm sure he wouldn't have bothered getting out of bed.

[VectraMan]

We can discuss this again further at the next independence referendum, sometime around 2044.

Yes I was just thinking "Why did I post that?". It's done. Over. In the ground. Pushing up the daisies. Got to meet its maker. It is an ex-referendum.

[VectraMan]

There's a bit of a paradox in there. The opposite of nationalism would be individual sovereignty, and a smaller independent nation would be the first step on the path to that state.

it strikes me that one is more likely to be a nationalist if they prefer not to wind the clock back 300 years.

Individual sovereignty? You mean everyone is their own country?

Interesting idea. It means I could stand in my own election, though I'm not sure I'd vote for myself. I don't trust me to deliver on my promises.

[GazCol]

That would have saved William Wallace the bother of getting is heed chopped off. If he'd have known that it was proper for the English got to decide if they should be free or not, I'm sure he wouldn't have bothered getting out of bed.

Ah, so you checked the box marked 'Freedom', rather than 'Yes'.

Should Scotland be an independent country was a question pertinent to everybody in the UK, not just those that happened to live in Scotland at the time of the referendum. I think it's likely Yes would have won, had it included a vote from everybody in the UK. Given how good you are at exporting your drug & alcohol addicted south, I think it would even have been a landslide victory.

[SpontaneousOrder]

You mean everyone is their own country?

No

[SpontaneousOrder]

Ah, so you checked the box marked 'Freedom', rather than 'Yes'.

Should Scotland be an independent country was a question pertinent to everybody in the UK, not just those that happened to live in Scotland at the time of the referendum.

Independence, in this instance, is a misnomer. It was a Scottish initiative and was rooted in a desire for national sovereignty - self-determination.
While one affects the degree to which the other might exist, independence and sovereignty are two very different things.

I'd like to have seen it happen, even though I think it'd have been painful in the short term (what with the Scots largely being raving socialists - unless I'm misjudging them).

[Flashman]

Our EU masters speak....

EU's De Gucht admits feared Scots 'cataclysm' for Europe | Reuters

Scottish independence would have been "cataclysmic" for Europe, spurring separatism elsewhere and creating an "ungovernable" continent of rival nationalisms, says trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht, a Belgian liberal politician, of Flemish origin.

Speaking to Belgium's VRT radio, he confided that he had feared a "yes" vote, saying: "If it had happened in Scotland, I think it would have been a political landslide on the scale of the break-up of the Soviet Union", adding: "It would have been cataclysmic for Europe. That was what I feared".

"A Europe driven by self-determination of peoples ... is ungovernable because you'd have dozens of entities but areas of policy for which you need unanimity or a very large majority ... Moreover it's about countries, or parts of former countries, that would behave in a very nationalistic way".

Sounds like the EU had something pretty nasty lined up for Scotland if they'd dared to vote yes....

[tractor]

...

Our EU masters speak....



Sounds like the EU had something pretty nasty lined up for Scotland if they'd dared to vote yes....

Sounds more like they were pooping themselves at the prospect of the gravy train hitting the buffers and coming to a complete stop. Wherever would they all get real jobs?

[SueEllen]

Our EU masters speak....
Sounds like the EU had something pretty nasty lined up for Scotland if they'd dared to vote yes....

Not surprised.

If you looked at how many separatist movements there were in Europe you could see that they would drag their heels about Scotland entering any of the economic areas.