Scottish Independence

[Spartacus]

I said no such thing.

Edit: Well, not recently that I can think of.

Apologies, sir, it was 'minestrone' that resorted to throwing insults rather than debating in a civilised manner.

[minestrone]

First paragraph.

Scottish Independence Poll - September 2013


That compares favourably with the Ipsos MORI poll for the period to 3rd August 2014 (Yes 40% / No 54%).

With the independence referendum now one year away, the first Scotland on Sunday/Scotsman/ICM poll shows that the No camp have decent sized lead (Yes 40%, No 60%) but which is by no means unassailable, something that supporters of the 2011 Yes to AV! Campaign will no doubt confirm.

First paragraph right?

That is why I asked you to directly reference it.

You see "Do you support independence" and "would you support independence if there was no financial change in your circumstance" are not the same question. You seem to think they are proving my initial point that you are indeed a bit of a thick twunt.

[Spartacus]

Lets say they have £5,000 at the moment. If they end up £500 better off, they now have £5,500. If they end up £500 worse off, they now have £4,500.

If someone is asked whether they would prefer to have £4,500 or £5,500, they're considering a £1,000 difference.

But that wasn't what they were actually asked and the individual wouldn't see a £1,000 difference in their finances. They were asked based on a hypothetical £500 difference from the current state.

The assertion remains that the nationalist principles of a significant portion of those Scots surveyed were shallow and easily bought. What price freedom, eh?

[Spartacus]

First paragraph right?

That is why I asked you to directly reference it.

You see "Do you support independence" and "would you support independence if there was no financial change in your circumstance" are not the same question. You seem to think they are proving my initial point that you are indeed a bit of a thick twunt.

I absolutely am a thick twunt, there is no doubt about that at all.

However, the assertion remains that the nationalist principles of a significant portion of the Scots surveyed were shallow and easily bought.

[Bunk]

I thought I'd better read the article if I'm going to argue about

From the second paragraph:

£500 better off: yes 56% - no 44%
No change: yes 47% - no 53%
£500 worse off: yes 22% - no 78%

[Bunk]

But that wasn't what they were actually asked and the individual wouldn't see a £1,000 difference in their finances. They were asked based on a hypothetical £500 difference from the current state.

The assertion remains that the nationalist principles of a significant portion of those Scots surveyed were shallow and easily bought. What price freedom, eh?

Yes, but it was £500 difference in both directions. And my point was mainly that it's not that easily bought. To us, when £500 is about a day's work, it seems easily bought but in the real world it's a lot.

[Spartacus]

I thought I'd better read the article if I'm going to argue about

From the second paragraph:

£500 better off: yes 56% - no 44%
No change: yes 47% - no 53%
£500 worse off: yes 22% - no 78%

Thanks, Bunk.

And minestrone, can we please just accept that I am a thick twunt and move on? That's not under debate as it is blindingly obvious to all. There's really no merit in attacking me as there is no honour in defeating an opponent weaker than yourself.

Please feel free to pop away at the survey results though, as they do seem to be suggesting that the nationalist principles of a significant portion of the Scots interviewed were shallow and easily bought.

[minestrone]

I absolutely am a thick twunt, there is no doubt about that at all.

However, the assertion remains that the nationalist principles of a significant portion of the Scots surveyed were shallow and easily bought.

What is the average wage, 25 grand? 1 grand difference on that after tax is going to be several percentages on income tax

Do the English not think about voting options when they are faced with a 5% tax shift or are you too stupid to better your lot when you have an advantage that can be used if you choose.

I have news for you that nobody will feel more or less Scottish if the place was independent. The premise that nationality is at stake here is nonsense.

[Spartacus]

Yes, but it was £500 difference in both directions. And my point was mainly that it's not that easily bought. To us, when £500 is about a day's work, it seems easily bought but in the real world it's a lot.

It's still less than two weeks work even on minimum wage. That does tend to suggest that nationalist passion for a significant portion of the Scots surveyed is a thin veneer and maybe reflects a tendency towards moaning and negativity, rather than a deep seated desire for self-determination?*

* That is my surmise, I cannot hyperlink to anything proving that to be the case.

[minestrone]

It's still less than two weeks work even on minimum wage. That does tend to suggest that nationalist passion for a significant portion of the Scots surveyed is a thin veneer and maybe reflects a tendency towards moaning and negativity, rather than a deep seated desire for self-determination?*

* That is my surmise, I cannot hyperlink to anything proving that to be the case.

You could just make some numbers up, you have been doing that quite a bit in the thread.