New road tax rules a PITA

[BolshieBastard]

All true now. Yet somehow we cope. If you buy a car you have to insure it before you can drive it home, so what if you have to tax it too? In fact that's what happens if you buy a car from a dealer that doesn't have tax already.

Well we're talking VED not insurance. Dont know about your insurance but mine says Im covered to drive any car, any time so not an issue.

Also, atm if you buy a car and its taxed, its taxed unless the owner takes the disc off it which they rarely do.

The issue here is people still think the piece of paper is what you're paying for, which isn't true anymore (there won't be a bit of paper). The refund is only a bit of a minor annoyance if you pay 6/12 months in advance; pay monthly (as you will be able to do) and there's no problem: you just cancel the car tax when it stops being your car.

Nope, spectacularly misses the point. First off, pay monthly and you'll pay more in VED, same as you do if you pay for 6 months instead of 12. So there's additional costs straight off.

When the new 'rules' come in, you wont know for sure if the VED has been cancelled or not (you believe everything a seller tells you?).

Havent bought a 'used' car privately or from a dealer for the last 30 years but if I was to buy one tomorrow, I can see at a glance if its taxed or not. If its not, I'd walk away because I cant be arsed buying the thing then wait for change of ownership details etc so I can tax it.

This is what will likely catch a lot of people out. If the owner cancels at the end of the month and you buy on the first of the next month or later, you'll need to arrange VED before you drive it from the buyer's premises to your gaff (unless you want to take your chance against ANPR). And that could take a couple of days to arrange as you'll need a new insurance certificate showing the new details.

Yes, you have to get a new insurance certificate now but, you can still drive the 'taxed' while you wait for this to arrive.

The 'piece of paper' as you put it is neither here nor there. Its whether the car is taxed for you to drive on the road when you drive away from the buyer.

[NickFitz]

This is what will likely catch a lot of people out. If the owner cancels at the end of the month and you buy on the first of the next month or later, you'll need to arrange VED before you drive it from the buyer's premises to your gaff (unless you want to take your chance against ANPR). And that could take a couple of days to arrange as you'll need a new insurance certificate showing the new details.

Yes, you have to get a new insurance certificate now but, you can still drive the 'taxed' while you wait for this to arrive.

The 'piece of paper' as you put it is neither here nor there. Its whether the car is taxed for you to drive on the road when you drive away from the buyer.

Nope: the moment you take ownership of the car, the previous owner's tax no longer applies. And, as I pointed out in the post above yours, you no longer need to have proof of insurance to tax the vehicle.

So you don't have any grace period during which you can drive the car on the previous owner's tax, or claim you were waiting for the insurance company to do something: you have to pay the tax yourself before you can use it on the road, full stop.

[BolshieBastard]

Nope: the moment you take ownership of the car, the previous owner's tax no longer applies. And, as I pointed out in the post above yours, you no longer need to have proof of insurance to tax the vehicle.

So you don't have any grace period during which you can drive the car on the previous owner's tax, or claim you were waiting for the insurance company to do something: you have to pay the tax yourself before you can use it on the road, full stop.

I think you mean yes if you read my post correctly. Given the way the government have gone on about uninsured drivers, I cant see how you can tax a car without insurance certificate irrespective of the beta site not asking for it. I'd say that was a clear mistake.

But Im not arsed as I dont buy second (or third) hand.

[CoolCat]

The physical bit of paper you stick in your windscreen is due to disappear in a few months. So the only record you have paid the road tax will be on a DVLA computer. In view of the fact there is no bit of paper as evidence they are probably protecting car buyers from unwittingly accepting a sellers word for the fact the car has X months left to run on existing car tax, and forcing them to always buy new car tax when they buy a new car. So if seller makes a mistake and buyer genuinely believed there was tax there would have been problems with no bit of paper to clarify, forcing everyone to always buy a new tax on purchase gets round this.

So it sounds more to do with the fact there will be no physical car tax disc soon.

[NickFitz]

I think you mean yes if you read my post correctly. Given the way the government have gone on about uninsured drivers, I cant see how you can tax a car without insurance certificate irrespective of the beta site not asking for it. I'd say that was a clear mistake.

But Im not arsed as I dont buy second (or third) hand.

If you read the page at https://www.gov.uk/tax-disc you'll see that it says that an insurance certificate is only required in Northern Ireland.

[VectraMan]

Well we're talking VED not insurance. Dont know about your insurance but mine says Im covered to drive any car, any time so not an issue.

Are you sure, or does it say you can drive any car you don't own? Because the latter is the norm. Which of course means you go to pick up a car you've just bought and as you own it you're no longer insured.

Also, atm if you buy a car and its taxed, its taxed unless the owner takes the disc off it which they rarely do.

Not necessarily. The owner could have got a refund without sending back the tax disc. (Form V33).

When the new 'rules' come in, you wont know for sure if the VED has been cancelled or not (you believe everything a seller tells you?).

Under the new system it's your responsibility as the new buyer to tax the car. It's irrelevant whether or not the previous owner has cancelled the VED because you can't drive it on the previous owner's VED anyway. It's under the current system that you can't know that the VED has been cancelled.

Havent bought a 'used' car privately or from a dealer for the last 30 years but if I was to buy one tomorrow, I can see at a glance if its taxed or not. If its not, I'd walk away because I cant be arsed buying the thing then wait for change of ownership details etc so I can tax it.

Which you won't be able to do once tax discs are a thing of the past.

This is what will likely catch a lot of people out. If the owner cancels at the end of the month and you buy on the first of the next month or later, you'll need to arrange VED before you drive it from the buyer's premises to your gaff (unless you want to take your chance against ANPR). And that could take a couple of days to arrange as you'll need a new insurance certificate showing the new details.

Again, same situation as now. And you don't need an insurance certificate, you just need insurance.

[NickFitz]

If you read the page at https://www.gov.uk/tax-disc you'll see that it says that an insurance certificate is only required in Northern Ireland.

And as some people seem to think that the Government's web site isn't a reliable source of information about the law, let's check the tabloid-newspaper-owned site that had the original article: Need to show insurance certificate to buy car tax axed | This is Money

Motorists will no longer need to show their car insurance certificate when taxing their vehicle under new plans to cut red tape for drivers.

The insurance check when you buy a tax disc has been in place for over 40 years and has led to countless drivers scrabbling for the key insurance document every time their car-tax falls due.

But the change to be announced today by Roads Minister Robert Goodwill is part of a package of measures that the Government says will save taxpayers up to £8 million every year.

Wow, looks like the Government site was correct! Amazing!

EDIT: incidentally, notice the quaint worldview of the Daily Mail site; a world in which people still "scrabble for" and "show" documents. It must be a decade at least since I've had to do any more than let the online system do the insurance check (along with the MOT check) while I'm renewing. I don't even get an insurance certificate any more, it's a PDF I can download and could, if I really wanted to, print out myself. I suppose the typical Mail reader as seen by the Mail, after they've done all their scrabbling and proudly displayed their certificate in the village Post Office, goes back to their vehicle with their driving cape around their shoulders, carefully adjusts their driving goggles, and starts vigorously cranking the starting handle at the front of the car. Bless

[BolshieBastard]

Are you sure, or does it say you can drive any car you don't own? Because the latter is the norm. Which of course means you go to pick up a car you've just bought and as you own it you're no longer insured.

Wrong, buy a new car over the last 5 years and premium brands at least give you free 7 day drive away cover. For a secondhand car, until Im the registered keeper \ owner, I dont own it.

Not necessarily. The owner could have got a refund without sending back the tax disc. (Form V33).

True but rarely happens cos they add a bit on to the sale price and know a taxed car generally sells better than an untaxed car.

Under the new system it's your responsibility as the new buyer to tax the car. It's irrelevant whether or not the previous owner has cancelled the VED because you can't drive it on the previous owner's VED anyway. It's under the current system that you can't know that the VED has been cancelled.

Yes, thats the PITA for the period from buying to getting the legal stuff sorted but you continue to overlook this particular PITA.

Which you won't be able to do once tax discs are a thing of the past.

Dont buy secondhand or private so no impact to me. Doesnt stop me seeing a PITA when I see one though.

Again, same situation as now. And you don't need an insurance certificate, you just need insurance.

By certificate I meant as in being insured. Do you practice being anal?

You dont need a hardcopy certificate to tax it (havent produced mine the last few times) but you'd still want a paper copy handy if the old bill asks you to produce (and no, I've never been asked to).

[BolshieBastard]

And as some people seem to think that the Government's web site isn't a reliable source of information about the law, let's check the tabloid-newspaper-owned site that had the original article: Need to show insurance certificate to buy car tax axed | This is Money



Wow, looks like the Government site was correct! Amazing!

EDIT: incidentally, notice the quaint worldview of the Daily Mail site; a world in which people still "scrabble for" and "show" documents. It must be a decade at least since I've had to do any more than let the online system do the insurance check (along with the MOT check) while I'm renewing. I don't even get an insurance certificate any more, it's a PDF I can download and could, if I really wanted to, print out myself. I suppose the typical Mail reader as seen by the Mail, after they've done all their scrabbling and proudly displayed their certificate in the village Post Office, goes back to their vehicle with their driving cape around their shoulders, carefully adjusts their driving goggles, and starts vigorously cranking the starting handle at the front of the car. Bless

WOW! You mean you've been producing your insurance certificate all this time!? Where have you been? I havent produced a certificate of insurance to tax my cars in ages.

Of course, some people are so anal. Amazing!!

[NickFitz]

WOW! You mean you've been producing your insurance certificate all this time!? Where have you been? I havent produced a certificate of insurance to tax my cars in ages.

Of course, some people are so anal. Amazing!!

Whoosh!