Contract assessment failed

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Just had a contract assessment done and it failed for ir35. First time I have had that happen and have asked agent to get the clauses changed. Just wondering if anybody has had to pull out of a gig because of that in the past?

[kal]

Just had a contract assessment done and it failed for ir35. First time I have had that happen and have asked agent to get the clauses changed. Just wondering if anybody has had to pull out of a gig because of that in the past?

Failed why exactly?

[Clare@InTouch]

Just the written terms, or the working conditions too? Does the contract match what happens in practice? How much do you know about what you'll be doing day to day, and the level of control you'll have etc?

It's very, very common for written contracts to fail for IR35 purposes as agencies cover their backsides so much they make the "IR35 clauses" useless - such as "you can substitute but only with our written consent and we have to interview them first".

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Failed why exactly?

- Sub clause is too restrictive (Clare already pointed out why)
- Clause which should not apply to a ltd company
- some other wording which is associated with employment

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Just the written terms, or the working conditions too? Does the contract match what happens in practice? How much do you know about what you'll be doing day to day, and the level of control you'll have etc?

It's very, very common for written contracts to fail for IR35 purposes as agencies cover their backsides so much they make the "IR35 clauses" useless - such as "you can substitute but only with our written consent and we have to interview them first".

I haven't started the contract yet, so obviously difficult to say right now. Obviously should there be anything dodgy it will be addressed.

[Clare@InTouch]

I haven't started the contract yet, so obviously difficult to say right now. Obviously should there be anything dodgy it will be addressed.

Then I'd suggest, if you really want the role, you consider accepting but emailing the agent with all the things you disagree with about the contract, but state that you're signing it purely because they are refusing to change the terms to match the reality of the contract conditions. Then, when you get on site, find a nice senior person to sign a confirmation of arrangements letter that backs up the facts.

Or, just trade as inside IR35 for the contract. It'll mean paying more tax but it's not the end of the world. Depends on how long it's for, what your alternatives are, and how much you stand to lose. You could always pay a larger salary as a way to hedge your bets, and if you're ever then assessed as being Inside your liability will be less.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Then I'd suggest, if you really want the role, you consider accepting but emailing the agent with all the things you disagree with about the contract, but state that you're signing it purely because they are refusing to change the terms to match the reality of the contract conditions. Then, when you get on site, find a nice senior person to sign a confirmation of arrangements letter that backs up the facts.

Or, just trade as inside IR35 for the contract. It'll mean paying more tax but it's not the end of the world. Depends on how long it's for, what your alternatives are, and how much you stand to lose. You could always pay a larger salary as a way to hedge your bets, and if you're ever then assessed as being Inside your liability will be less.

They have not refused yet! I was just wondering if anybody had experienced that before. I won't be accepting a contract within ir35 as I'd rather take the time off and look for another one.

[Clare@InTouch]

They have not refused yet! I was just wondering if anybody had experienced that before. I won't be accepting a contract within ir35 as I'd rather take the time off and look for another one.

I've known a few agents that will change terms upon request, but they tend to be the smaller ones rather than the larger ones like Hays. You could even try presenting your own terms, and using the PCG template. I've seen that work once or twice too!

Of course the same rules apply though - it's only helpful if it's realistic, so even the PCG one won't protect you if it's not true.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I've known a few agents that will change terms upon request, but they tend to be the smaller ones rather than the larger ones like Hays. You could even try presenting your own terms, and using the PCG template. I've seen that work once or twice too!

Of course the same rules apply though - it's only helpful if it's realistic, so even the PCG one won't protect you if it's not true.

I think that it becomes easier to be a real contractor as you get more experienced and comfortable in the life of a contractor. To start off with I think we all acted a bit like employees but provided you have the right attitude and act like a contractor the clients soon start to respect you and treat you like one.

[northernladuk]

I think that it becomes easier to be a real contractor as you get more experienced and comfortable in the life of a contractor. To start off with I think we all acted a bit like employees but provided you have the right attitude and act like a contractor the clients soon start to respect you and treat you like one.

Indeed, but I do have to add that many people continue to act like permies for years. I would argue there are very few proper contractors compared to people that don't and will probably never get it.