Job fell through as Agency not on Clients PSL

[The Agents View]

A naive and simplistic view of how business HR functions work, are you sure you're cut out to be an agent?

I didn't say that was how they work.

I merely pointed out that this is how they should work.

As a contractor, you are a business. You are not a human resource, you are not an employee, you don't even have a job with the end client, you have an assignment, which your limited company has won, from an agent in many cases - business, to business.....You are an employee of your limited company, and only your limited company.

If you are a PAYE, fixed term contractor, that's absolutely the remit of a HR team, but if you are a limited company contractor, HR should be absolutely nothing to do with any kind of deal being done....It's like asking the canteen staff to run the accounts department.

If you can't grasp these simple concepts, then I suggest it is you who is not cut out for proper contracting.

[The Agents View]

I've missed TAV over the past year, just for theories like this one.

Yes, sorry I've been a bit quiet - I've been busy building an empire.....and ripping off stupid contractors.... (because that's all agents do, if you read this forum)

[Taita]

I didn't say that was how they work.

I merely pointed out that this is how they should work.

As a contractor, you are a business. You are not a human resource, you are not an employee, you don't even have a job with the end client, you have an assignment, which your limited company has won, from an agent in many cases - business, to business.....You are an employee of your limited company, and only your limited company.

If you are a PAYE, fixed term contractor, that's absolutely the remit of a HR team, but if you are a limited company contractor, HR should be absolutely nothing to do with any kind of deal being done....It's like asking the canteen staff to run the accounts department.

If you can't grasp these simple concepts, then I suggest it is you who is not cut out for proper contracting.

HR approve and appoint agencies to the PSL. Hiring managers are told they can only get contractors through the PSL, as ordered by the Board. If they attempt to get around this house rule they get spanked. I cannot see you as an agent getting away with telling HR it has nothing to do with them and a stroppy contractor (who knows and insists on his rights even before he has been engaged) is likely to become unwanted very quickly!

[kal]

I didn't say that was how they work.

I merely pointed out that this is how they should work.

As a contractor, you are a business. You are not a human resource, you are not an employee, you don't even have a job with the end client, you have an assignment, which your limited company has won, from an agent in many cases - business, to business.....You are an employee of your limited company, and only your limited company.

If you are a PAYE, fixed term contractor, that's absolutely the remit of a HR team, but if you are a limited company contractor, HR should be absolutely nothing to do with any kind of deal being done....It's like asking the canteen staff to run the accounts department.

If you can't grasp these simple concepts, then I suggest it is you who is not cut out for proper contracting.

Well you are in minority of one with that opinion judging by other comments but are in denial I see. Good luck telling HR it's got nothing to do with them who you recruit for them on a contract basis. In fact I imagine your real world response to them is yes sir no sir, three bags full sir...

[The Agents View]

Well you are in minority of one with that opinion judging by other comments but are in denial I see. Good luck telling HR it's got nothing to do with them who you recruit for them on a contract basis. In fact I imagine your real world response to them is yes sir no sir, three bags full sir...

I've not dealt with a HR department for at least 3 years. Project Co-Ordinators, Project office, administrators, yes, but HR is absolutely nothing to do with the people I engage - it's quite simple really.

Look up the difference between an employment agent, and an employment business.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses

You'll notice there's no mention of limited company contractors, apart from the opt out. This is one of the reasons I won't work with contractors who don't opt out - you can't broker a business to business deal, with an opted in contractor.

[craig1]

I've not dealt with a HR department for at least 3 years. Project Co-Ordinators, Project office, administrators, yes, but HR is absolutely nothing to do with the people I engage - it's quite simple really.

Look up the difference between an employment agent, and an employment business.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses

You'll notice there's no mention of limited company contractors, apart from the opt out. This is one of the reasons I won't work with contractors who don't opt out - you can't broker a business to business deal, with an opted in contractor.

A couple of points:
- Roughly 3/4 of the contracts I do have clients where HR provide the interface between the client and the agency. They are HR in name only when dealing with contractors but they're still HR as they control the number of people in the building working. In fact, many of the companies I work for you'd not get a login without HR starting the ball rolling on the tied-in process.
- I refuse to opt-out, (pedant's note, you can't opt in), my contracts pass every legal review every time and the premium agencies I work for don't bat an eyelid when I refuse to opt out. Generally, in my experience, the poorer quality the agency, the more likely they are to demand and insist on an opt-out and it's an instant mark of suspicion when an agency asks me to do so. Why would an agency care about you being opted out unless they wanted to reserve the right to screw you over at some point?

[kal]

A couple of points:
- Roughly 3/4 of the contracts I do have clients where HR provide the interface between the client and the agency. They are HR in name only when dealing with contractors but they're still HR as they control the number of people in the building working. In fact, many of the companies I work for you'd not get a login without HR starting the ball rolling on the tied-in process.
- I refuse to opt-out, (pedant's note, you can't opt in), my contracts pass every legal review every time and the premium agencies I work for don't bat an eyelid when I refuse to opt out. Generally, in my experience, the poorer quality the agency, the more likely they are to demand and insist on an opt-out and it's an instant mark of suspicion when an agency asks me to do so. Why would an agency care about you being opted out unless they wanted to reserve the right to screw you over at some point?

+1, The less reputable the agency the more they try and strong arm you to sign over your rights (a lot of time its meaningless as you're past the stage where signing an opt-out actually is worth the paper its printed on but that doesn't stop the bloke who was knocking out mobile phones at Carphone warehouse a couple of months ago trying his best ).

[eek]

+1, The less reputable the agency the more they try and strong arm you to sign over your rights (a lot of time its meaningless as you're past the stage where signing an opt-out actually is worth the paper its printed on but that doesn't stop the bloke who was knocking out mobile phones at Carphone warehouse a couple of months ago trying his best ).

As he knows no better.

[kal]

I've not dealt with a HR department for at least 3 years. Project Co-Ordinators, Project office, administrators, yes, but HR is absolutely nothing to do with the people I engage - it's quite simple really.

Look up the difference between an employment agent, and an employment business.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses

You'll notice there's no mention of limited company contractors, apart from the opt out. This is one of the reasons I won't work with contractors who don't opt out - you can't broker a business to business deal, with an opted in contractor.

Keep digging...