Working extra hours / days

[BigRed]

10% extra absolute tops, then they can pay for it. Of course this might be over a month or a week. I would normally do 8-4 but if everyone is there until 6 then I'd do 10-6. It's easier coming in to the middle of a crisis than walking out on one.

[tarbera]

nothing are you joking???

If you're the type of person who expects something for nothing, you're not the type of client i'm looking for.

lol, no its paid

[someltd]

Thanks

Thanks for all the answers, I'll wait and see how/if I am asked about additional hours. I expect there'll be some starting late finishing late days which is fine by me, but just have to wait and see about weekends. I don't want to work weekends but working a weekend sounds a lot more attractive than being on the bench, and it's a few extra quid of course.

I'll see how my client reacts when they realise it's going to cost them for weekend work while their permies have/are doing it for freebies. With any luck, it'll become a non-issue due to their budget.

[kingcook]

Thanks for all the answers, I'll wait and see how/if I am asked about additional hours. I expect there'll be some starting late finishing late days which is fine by me, but just have to wait and see about weekends. I don't want to work weekends but working a weekend sounds a lot more attractive than being on the bench, and it's a few extra quid of course.

I'll see how my client reacts when they realise it's going to cost them for weekend work while their permies have/are doing it for freebies. With any luck, it'll become a non-issue due to their budget.

Get all the answers ready. Don't umm and ahhh when they ask.

You mention about being on the bench. You have to always be prepared to tell clients what you are/aren't willing to do. For me, i'm prepared to do that even if it does mean the bench, but then I have the luxury of a warchest.

In the past when I have set clients straight (admittedly it's not been that often), it has always worked out for me. Then they know I mean business (and treat me like a business).

[GB9]

Thanks for all the answers, I'll wait and see how/if I am asked about additional hours. I expect there'll be some starting late finishing late days which is fine by me, but just have to wait and see about weekends. I don't want to work weekends but working a weekend sounds a lot more attractive than being on the bench, and it's a few extra quid of course.

I'll see how my client reacts when they realise it's going to cost them for weekend work while their permies have/are doing it for freebies. With any luck, it'll become a non-issue due to their budget.

As I said, don't do any weekend work for free. If you are on a daily rate then Saturdays and Sundays are days just like any others. I would also be more inclined to keep to 7.5-8 hour days at the weekend than the rest of the week.

Having said that, I don't like clock watchers and tend to agree with Tarbera that someone sticking exactly to their contracted hours wouldn't be renewed. For a professional working day I would say between 8-9 hours is reasonable.

All in all, it depends what you are selling yourself as. Are you an expert in your field with a desire to deliver something and get paid accordingly? Or are you just a bum on a seat, paid less and more reasonably expecting to work nearer to your contracted hours?

[BigRed]

Ok, I'll bite. For most of my long career (mostly permanent) I've worked a 35hr week. One job was 37.5hrs. Only one place has expected regular long hours of their permanent staff and I left fairly quickly because they general attitude stank. As a contractor I have reluctantly accepted that 40hrs seems to be expected as part of this 'professional day'. To me, a professional day means some flexibility on start times and on hours worked on a given day. An average of 9hrs a day plus travel and the time spent running my business is unacceptable unless it is agreed up front.

A typical contractor will like to start late on a Monday, finish early on a Friday, so 6 hrs each for those days then 3x8.5 for the remainder of the week. Anyone looking for more than that is looking for bums on seats in my opinion, not the reverse.

I worked with a group of Septics once, put the hours in and don't take holidays was their ethic, of course they spent a lot of time round the watercooler instead of getting their head down and doing anything, pretty good at meetings and crisis calls as well, it was like the PM ethic had spread through the workforce.

[someltd]

All in all, it depends what you are selling yourself as. Are you an expert in your field with a desire to deliver something and get paid accordingly? Or are you just a bum on a seat, paid less and more reasonably expecting to work nearer to your contracted hours?

In this contract I appear to be a bum on a seat paid more (the day rate appears to be above what I'd expect for the type of work), that said, I'd not do the contract for less as I have bills to pay etc, but as has been said - 9 hour/day is no issue to me, I live local so no travelling. 10-12 hour days regularly and expected weekends was my concern, not only do I not want to do it for free, it would have a significant impact on my family life, even more so when coupled with the possibility of weekend work.

In any of my previous permie jobs, I'd not even be having this discussion because it would be a very rare occasion and my efforts would be appreciated by my manager, if not always financially rewarded. In this contract though, from what I can gather, it is the norm for most permies to work very extended hours, and if the permies can manage to do a 7.5/8 hour day they consider that to be an early finish, which leads me to wonder if the same and more might be expected from me given my (I assume) significantly higher financial remuneration compared to the permies.

You guys have given me the confidence to know that I'm not being unreasonable by expecting to be paid for working significantly more than my contract (weekends). I hope the issue doesn't arise, but if it does, I am now confident of what I will and won't say.

[psychocandy]

As I said, don't do any weekend work for free. If you are on a daily rate then Saturdays and Sundays are days just like any others. I would also be more inclined to keep to 7.5-8 hour days at the weekend than the rest of the week.

Having said that, I don't like clock watchers and tend to agree with Tarbera that someone sticking exactly to their contracted hours wouldn't be renewed. For a professional working day I would say between 8-9 hours is reasonable.

All in all, it depends what you are selling yourself as. Are you an expert in your field with a desire to deliver something and get paid accordingly? Or are you just a bum on a seat, paid less and more reasonably expecting to work nearer to your contracted hours?

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

[someltd]

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

This is exactly the issue - as a sensible/professional 9-10 hours when things are against the wall or a major fault, on rare occasions is fine, but it's where you draw the line. Once you start down the (I think) slippery path of showing you are happy to work more hours you become known for working 9-10 hour days and when you do a 9-5.30 one day, people have the perception that you've finished early. Not a great image, when you've been working your ass off for weeks doing 9-10 hour days. Like wise, working exactly per contract hours is not surely the way to portray your business as one your client wishes to engage with again.

As you say psycho - it's not just a financial consideration.

The upshot here seems to be that there is a general opinion that some occasional hours are fine, but it should not become the norm, and you never work additional days without billing. I'm happy to work along those lines, and where required be flexible with my time, but not my invoicing.

btw - nice to see that this thread has been really informative and kept on track - I've read a few where they degenerate into an IR35 bashing....

[tarbera]

thats why

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

we have started ignoring local candinates, ones that come Monday to Friday work longer hours