Frustrating Client - advice please

[amorts]

So good news, I managed to get an ally in the form of another contractor and good mate in there.

Starting to make life a little easier having someone who can talk the same language.

It's still a massive effort to get the client to make key decisions and takes 10 times as much effort to get the same results here as with other clients!!

[darrylmg]

Are you taking a cut from your mate?
If not, why not?

Now there's two of you to talk some sense into them. Well done

[AnthonyQuinn]

1. Keep head down.
2. Keep invoicing.

HTH

+1 +1 Best advice ever. Should be added as a sticky in general for contractors frustrated with client indecision, lack of clarity, not enough work blah blah blah blah

[lukemg]

WTAS - wow, some pretty good advice on here.
As you are contract, you can always walk - that alone gets me through many work related headf**ks.
Ok, you want to stay, then I would treat it as a pitch for business.
So - You need to evaluate very clearly the benefits of doing the work, money talks, everything else is 'nice to have' but not persuasive. If you can't do this, forget it.
Next - A clear path to realise the benefits, what it will cost, how long will it take. If you can't do this with reasonable accuracy, forget it.
If you have both these and the story is compelling, you need buy in from someone senior who has budget and wants to chalk their name up against a win (plenty are happy to take zero risks and hope no-one notices them).
You are dealing with middle rankers who dont control the budget and dont have the juice to push this through, that needs to change.
Good luck...

[amorts]

Essentially the problem in slightly more detail is this:

1. A key objective for this project it to 'bring the perm staff along' training them etc. The staff have little or no experience and aren't interested in learning, as unfortunately they think they know everything.

2. Because of this everything I know that works, because I've done it 100 odd times gets questioned by these guys. So I find myself spending a lot of time and effort arguing and presenting these points which after several months becomes hugely draining and demotivating.

3. Essentially everything I put to the client is undermined and questioned. Every single design decision is laboured as you can imagine.

So bottom line is I am not getting anything back out of this role apart from frustration and a lot of pain (and of course some cash). My feeling is these perm guys are at the limit of their ability now and aren't interested in learning anything else.

Unless I can deliver the project externally if you like (which is where the opportunity lies) there is no further value I can add to the client.

[Ticktock]

Essentially the problem in slightly more detail is this:

1. A key objective for this project it to 'bring the perm staff along' training them etc. The staff have little or no experience and aren't interested in learning, as unfortunately they think they know everything.

I see a problem here. Clients often seem to think that knowing how something works, and being able to show other people how it works, is the same as training them on it. I see a lot of roles advertised for BAs and PMs where the description includes training, less often in dev roles.

As a functional trainer I take the view that the actual button pressing is only a small part of the training I deliver. There's a lot more I do, which can address points such as "staff... aren't interested in learning, as unfortunately they think they know everything."

One answer would be that perhaps the clients expectations of what they want you to deliver don't match your areas of expertise and experience, and need resetting.
Another answer is that I'm always happy to quote for work.