Notice period question

[PEEL]

What is the importance of the notice period clause if the work is paid for hourly and there are no minimum / maximum hours specified on the contract? If notice is given to terminate the contract is there any obligation to continue to provide a service?
Peel

[kevpuk]

What is the importance of the notice period clause if the work is paid for hourly and there are no minimum / maximum hours specified on the contract? If notice is given to terminate the contract is there any obligation to continue to provide a service?
Peel

To my mind, it is more a courtesy clause......but the reality is that Client can say there is no work, don't bother invoicing at any time, and you are hard pushed to do anything other than stay away. I reckon it is more aimed at the provider (i.e. us) to allow client time to locate replacement resource if provider decides to up sticks.

However, I guess that if the gig is inside IR35 it might be worth hanging on even if Client says no work....now there is a scenario! After all, as a 'disguised permie' you may as well try to reap some of the alleged rewards (i.e. no work, but still getting paid)

As to the bit of obligation, then you are still contracted and whilst there is still invoicable work surely it makes sense to continue whilst you can?

[TheFaQQer]

What is the importance of the notice period clause if the work is paid for hourly and there are no minimum / maximum hours specified on the contract?

None

If notice is given to terminate the contract is there any obligation to continue to provide a service?
Peel

What does the contract say?

[PEEL]

What does the contract say?

Contract:
The Employment Business or the Client may terminate the Assignment and this Agreement at any time without prior notice or liability, unless otherwise stated in the Assignment Schedule.

Assignment schdule:
Notice Period: X weeks from the business to the resource / X weeks from the resource to the business

I reckon it is more aimed at the provider (i.e. us) to allow client time to locate replacement resource if provider decides to up sticks.

In this case they should have presented an asymmetrical notice, unless that isn't common practice? I would like to think that the courtesy went both ways...

[northernladuk]

Contract:
The Employment Business or the Client may terminate the Assignment and this Agreement at any time without prior notice or liability, unless otherwise stated in the Assignment Schedule.

Assignment schdule:
Notice Period: X weeks from the business to the resource / X weeks from the resource to the business

But if you have no work to do they ask you not to come in until the end of the contract. This means they don't have to give you any notice at all to bin you, they just stop paying you. You still have to give them notice when you want to leave though. There is a difference between being paid and giving notice to the contract

In this case they should have presented an asymmetrical notice, unless that isn't common practice? I would like to think that the courtesy went both ways...

It's a negotiation between two parties. There is no common practice really. More and more contracts do not allow the contractor to give notice at all.

If you think it should go both ways then negotiate it in.... but remember they can stop paying you next day if the want....

[VectraMan]

But if you have no work to do they ask you not to come in until the end of the contract. This means they don't have to give you any notice at all to bin you, they just stop paying you. You still have to give them notice when you want to leave though. There is a difference between being paid and giving notice to the contract

Why? If there's no minimum hours, you're under no obligation to accept any work that might occur in your notice period. It's exactly the same as your argument for saying their notice to you isn't worth anything.

Which it is. At the end of the day, nobody is making them put a notice period in the contract. If they want no notice, put that in the contract, many IR35 worrying contractors would be happier that way. If they put in a notice period, then they owe you for that period. Just because they don't require a service from you in that period is irrelevant. This is the way many business contracts work.

[northernladuk]

Why? If there's no minimum hours, you're under no obligation to accept any work that might occur in your notice period. It's exactly the same as your argument for saying their notice to you isn't worth anything.

Which it is. At the end of the day, nobody is making them put a notice period in the contract. If they want no notice, put that in the contract, many IR35 worrying contractors would be happier that way. If they put in a notice period, then they owe you for that period. Just because they don't require a service from you in that period is irrelevant. This is the way many business contracts work.

Unfortunately I don't know about the obligation the other way. No one has really tested it on here and there is no legal precedence that we have discussed. Clients exercise their no work no pay every year at Christmas for example, so we know they do it. We also know that clients let contractors go regularly when the project has finished. Sometimes give them notice, sometimes don't. I don't think many clients are aware, or are cheeky enough to pull the no work/no pay option though which is a relief.

I don't personally think the relationship is the same when there is a supplier and a client so I would have thought there was a difference. Paying someone for work until the money or work runs out is one thing, just upping sticks and breaching contract is another.

We are also forgetting that the best way out of a client is negotiation. It doesn't matter what is in your contract. If they are willing to provide someone else and be given a good handover it will get you out of contract fairly amicably in most cases.

Oh, and surely if your contract states a professional day or times of work then there is a minimum hours?

Have to say I am still not convinced what the score with MoO in a contract is. From what I have read over the years it seems to me the MoO flag is about offering work after the contract. It's something else inside the contract but as I am unsure I would be happy for this to be clarified for me.

[PEEL]

Oh, and surely if your contract states a professional day or times of work then there is a minimum hours?

This isn't the case. It is bizarre. When the contract was signed I assumed that the notice period would involve an average day for that number of weeks (let's say 9) and that this would be the case both ways. Now I am possibly leaving to take a permie job elsewhere and if it comes they will ask for a fixed start date. What I don't want is for me to give a date that ends after my notice period only for the current client to then say 'there is no work' after I hand in my notice. It would leave me with a fair while of time that I don't want to be out of work. I will try and speak to a few contractors at this site and see what experiences they have of it - some have been on and off here for the last few years.

[northernladuk]

This isn't the case. It is bizarre. When the contract was signed I assumed that the notice period would involve an average day for that number of weeks (let's say 9) and that this would be the case both ways.

The contract is there to take any assumptions out. That is the whole point. Get your assumptions documented if in doubt.

Now I am possibly leaving to take a permie job elsewhere and if it comes they will ask for a fixed start date. What I don't want is for me to give a date that ends after my notice period only for the current client to then say 'there is no work' after I hand in my notice. It would leave me with a fair while of time that I don't want to be out of work. I will try and speak to a few contractors at this site and see what experiences they have of it - some have been on and off here for the last few years.

It would be pretty bloody minded of them to do that. They may find a replacement immediately and ask you to hand over and then leave at a time that suits their business which may be shorter than your notice but again, that would be pretty tight.

Drop NorthWestPerm2Contact a note. He has plenty of experience of handing his notice in.

[TheFaQQer]

It would be pretty bloody minded of them to do that. They may find a replacement immediately and ask you to hand over and then leave at a time that suits their business which may be shorter than your notice but again, that would be pretty tight.

It depends on the industry and where you are going - if there is a chance that you could be heading off with some of their proprietary information, they'll march you from site pretty sharpish.

Drop NorthWestPerm2Contact a note. He has plenty of experience of handing his notice in.