Advice Please

[Andyw]

You're going to get whacked for IR35 !

[Pondlife]

You're going to get whacked for IR35 !

Care to eplain in more detail?

[Diestl]

Everyone must have been "not worth listening to at some point" until they made enough of these types of posts. BTW what is the trigger number of posts to move on from NWLT? Edit: Yes! I'm Not..Not worth listening to anymore.

[Pondlife]

Everyone must have been "not worth listening to at some point" until they made enough of these types of posts. BTW what is the trigger number of posts to move on from NWLT? Edit: Yes! I'm Not..Not worth listening to anymore.

I guess that means 30

Congrats. Most get banned at 24

[hyperD]

My contract was set up and B2B and back-to-back (as confirmed with client, which I saw evidence of).

If you have a true B2B suppliers contract and purchase order setup then you are laughing wrt IR35 and regardless of what you do with the client i.e. name tags, meals, days out, porno, brothels etc whatever you heard makes no difference whatsoever...

I am also careful to behave as a B2B contractor by working out of my home office most of the time and only visiting the client site when I need to do a face to face.

This is what I'm saying - tone down the desperation to be seen as a bona fide business and act as a great consultant to be with. This is worth more than the IR getting their snout into "perceived" actual operations.

However, my name is on the office door which I am not pleased about either.

Do what I did - steal the name tag and blame the Romanian programmers.

However, I feel as I'm being dragged into the personal services arena more so now and that my client is viewing my contractual status as supplier as a smokescreen instead of a real own company.

"It's just your uncle talking" - Obi Wan.

If you are providing a service for a client direct under a contract of services specific for a project at a fixed price then it doesn't matter what the client thinks i.e. whether you are a contractor or a real company: he's just interested in you, a representative of your company, to provide a product. And he wants reassurance, not surliness.

He keeps referring to me as a member of a team (which I don't mind if we're talking deliverable outputs whereby working with others is essential to get it done, but now it seems that it extends to how I am being viewed on the programme as a whole (as if I belong to it rather than the programme being a client organisation).

Irrelevant to the IR investigation team. As a supplier of services you should be IMMERSED in the team, helping them, leading them etc

For example, today I got an invite for a meal out 'with the team' next week with my name on a general programme distribution list. I am pretty angry about this because I feel that my company should have been invited on my own e-mail addy which my client knows exists and has corresponded to on a regular basis in the past.

Irrelevant. Be thankful you get an invite. IR cannot trace this as such and certainly wouldn't declare you a "disguised" employee of the company because of this action alone.

I do most of my work on my own computer but do have a company provided laptop for 'network' purposes only (the addy was sent to this laptop address).

It is extremely rare that you can plug any old laptop into the Corporate Network due to some security issues. Using your own equipment is a great pointer to non-IR35. What I used to do with an old (OK, leading edge) media company was to say that due to the nature of the project, I had to use specialised client equipment to connect to the broadcasting network and specialist equipment (which was true. Kind of.).

How do I handle this? I feel annoyed that I am being treated and considered as an intrinsic member of a team when I have behaved and made clear all along that I am a separate supplier company. I don't even eat in the staff restaurant and come and go as I please like any other external supplier. However, even this is difficult to differentiate as many of the personal service contractors and staff can 'work from home' too (I use the term 'working out of my home office and set my network profile up as a separate business). Clearly, they are not taking my business status seriously enough, if they are doing this, despite all the evidence that I am behaving as a supplier not a team member.

I believe they don't even realise let alone comprehend how IR35 affects contractors. To be honest, if your contract states B2B (and for your sanity get it checked by Accountax, SJD and any of the other guys that specialise in IR35) everything else is pretty moot. Don't make a scene, don't alienate yourself. Be thankful that your contract is as B2B as you could ever make it. It's just the fear of the IR35 spectre that has caused you and every other contractor to undergo this ridiculous uncertainty.

Am I making a fuss over nothing or do I have to be cautious. The programme manager also sends out a holiday fill in sheet each week which so far I have avoided filling in. However, I am on that list too.

Do I ask to be removed from all irrelevant non-deliverable distribution lists that have nothing to do with my work schedule outputs or do I stay quiet and put up with it?

Serious answers only please. I would really appreciate some good, relevant replies from those who work (contract terms and behaviours) as own business contractors genuinely viewed as outside of IR35 who work for large clients on extended contracts.

To be honest, overall, I think you are too paranoid about this.

Firstly, IR35 investigations are rare. If they do occur, get professional help before you even reply to the IR. It will save you money in the long term and the pros will do their work without you putting your foot in. Never, ever reply direct to the IR on a PAYE audit - GET PROFESSIONAL HELP!

If your contract has been written as B2B as you've stated, then all the other "soft" IR35 pointers that so many ambitious temps/non-IR35 "percieved" contractors whinge about are irrelevant - the HMC&R are not going to declare you IR35 because you went to a team party and they put your name on a door.

If you genuinely have MOO, control, substitution etc written in to your contract (and pay a few quid to get it checked out accordingly - if OK then you may consider not getting IR35 insurance unless you believe there is some uncertainty if the IR realising this - and PAYE audits can be expensive so for peace of mind check out the PCG) then you have nothing to worry about.

Back to what I was saying - the ideal thing is to register yourself as a preferred supplier of services with the multi-nationals and have a genuine B2B Purchase Order & contract (normally fixed price) for a specific piece of work.

And avoid HR at all costs. The problem is, and always is, you want to be seen as a true business provider. So when someone asks you an appropriate question of "what happens if you get run over by a bus?" you can immediately say you have other resources (sub-contract, which is what I do genuinely) to carry on the work, other partners (wife, shareholder) - and everything is escrow for the client (unless you're going for the licence)!


Oh, and meant to add: at this leading edge media company I worked at once as a contractor, I went in a year later as fixed price for a job (about to go llive now). The client suggested I took my laptop in and sat and a spare desk. I told him I would be doing all the development offsite at my own premises to save him the assets. It took him a while to make the paradigm shift from me being a contractor to genuine business. I, like yourself, went in for meetings and yet they still invited me out for meals, trips to the canteen (uuurgh) and other client perks (that I should really declare but I'm not!.

Bottom line - irrelevant - but I fitted in without trying to make a bit of a stand off with everyone - that may or may not have understood this deeply infuriating legal position that one has been conditioned to try and act out.

[Denny]

Thanks for all your replies, I'm very grateful.

[hyperD]

It's OK Denny - you've grabbed a 10 - 20% more take-home than the umbrella monkeys!!!! Well done! Chill out and enjoy your reward!

[Denny]

You're going to get whacked for IR35 !

[Diestl]

Is there a time limit contracts can be investigated for? i.e. if i do a 6 months contract in 2006 could IR still look at it in 2016? The reason I ask is I would try and be outside IR35 on all my contracts get insurance/contract looked over and treat the extra money saved as savings in case they come after you. Once the time limit has expired you can spend the cash?

[hyperD]

Well, AIUI, the IR can go as far back as they want once they start an investigation (until 2001 IR35?).

I had the VAT man phone me for a precautionary "introduction" 2 years ago and light-heartedly mention a few bits of hardware in the breakdown of my expenses...sounded like a dodgery old fool but in actual fact was as sharp as nails.

Sadly, the fact is, unless you are truly B2B you cannot spend IR35 money (approx 20% of your turnover) unless you are 100% certain.

However, the chances of an investigation are statistically low. BUT you cannot say after X years I'm OK.

You can say, however, once you vote Tory, IR35 will be abolished (or you used to... - not sure now...)